Is Paradise in Luke 23:43 a Persian loan into Hebrew?

mojobadshah

Senior Member
Is the word Paradise in Luke 23:43 a Persian loan from Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek? In other words did would Jesus or the Apostles be using the word Paradise because they spoke Jewish and paradise was a loan into Hebrew or is paradise in the Luke 23:43 merely a Greek and Roman translation of another word?
 
  • No one "spoke" Jewish, since that refers to a religion and not a language. That aside, the word 'paradise' has its origins in an Iranian language (e.g. Avestan: pairidaēza "enclosed area"). It was loaned into Greek, which subsequently loaned it to Latin and English.
     
    In addition, the word paradise has no cognate in Hebrew. The Hebrew expression that is conceptually identified with Paradise is gan eden (garden of Eden).
     
    ^ It was, however, also loaned from Iranian into Hebrew, Aramaic, Akkadian, and several other languages of the Near East. It's used in parts of the Hebrew Bible, too. The usage in Luke is likely based on its Greek perception, since that is the original language of the scripture. Indeed, in Greek usage Paradise was equated with the Garden of Eden.
     
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    In the Tanakh
    You said that before (in parts of the Hebrew Bible). My question was where in the Tanakh because the claim sounds strange to me. The word פרדס appears in the song of Salomon 4:13 and there it has the literal meaning fruit garden. I am not aware of any part in the Tanakh where פרדס could be understood as גן עדן.
     
    I only meant that פרדס, which is an Iranian loanword and etymologically related to paradise, is used in the Tanakh. The meaning of פרדס and paradise/גן עדן is of course different. Equating paradise with גן עדן is likely a Greek concept.
     
    I only meant that פרדס, which is an Iranian loanword and etymologically related to paradise, is used in the Tanakh. The meaning of פרדס and paradise/גן עדן is of course different. Equating paradise with גן עדן is likely a Greek concept.
    That I agree with.:)
     
    As Wolverine correctly says, pairi-daēza- “enclosure” occurs once in the Avesta, and it has a transparent Iranian etymology (pari “around” and daiza- “wall", cognate with English “dyke” etc.). It was borrowed from Old Persian or Median into all the languages of the Eastern Mediterranean, including Hebrew and Greek, specifically in the meaning “pleasure garden of the Persian king”, in Greek already in Xenophon. In the Greek translation of Gen. 2:8 it designates the garden of Eden. The first clear use in the meaning “abode of the blessed dead” is in the New Testament (Luke 23:43 and 2 Cor. 12:4), so it is not a “Greek” (pagan) concept, but presumably a usage that originated among Hellenized Jews.
     
    ^ So in other words, the use of paradise to mean the Garden of Eden and ~heaven was first illustrated in the Greek language but in a Jewish cultural context.
     
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    Ok, thanks. There are however other approaches of paganism:
    It was historically used as one of several pejorative Christian counterparts to "gentile" (גוי / נכרי) as used in the Hebrew Bible - comparable to "infidel" or "heretic". Modern ethnologists often avoid this broad usage in favour of more specific and less potentially offensive terms such as "polytheism", "shamanism", "pantheism", or "animism" when referring to traditional or historical faiths.
    Source: Wikipedia
     
    I fournd this reasonable hypothesis in some anonymous sources:
    The 70 Greco-Jews knew well the Bible and the Greek literature and were certainly aware that the biblic paradise was not enclosed in walls. Instead, the Paradise had many rivers (Gen. 2) and according to tradition was between Tigris and Euphrates. If there was a Middle-Eastern tradition about a primordial garden surrounded by walls known with the above mentioned Avestan word, they possibly took the middle way to create a word that would preserve this word and at the same time sound familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews of their time. Thus, they kept the para- which is the same with the Gr. peri (around) and used the Gr. v. δεύω (to wet, to flood etc, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...habetic+letter=*d:entry+group=23:entry=deu/w1) to make a word that gives the sense of an area with plenty of what is most valuable in Middle-East: water. At the same time, this word has an acoustic and semantic relation to "God", since a Greek variant of Zeus is Deus (Δευς, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...habetic+letter=*d:entry+group=22:entry=*deu/s) which is assumed to come from the v. δεύω (because God is "watering" the Earth, with all the meanings of the word).
     
    ^ So in other words, the use of paradise to mean the Garden of Eden and ~heaven was first illustrated in the Greek language but in a Jewish cultural context.

    Exactly.

    By the way, in the New Testament Ἕλλην actually means “pagan” or "gentile". This is why the Christian Greeks of the Byzantine period did not call themselves “Hellenes” but “Romans”. Anyway, I would not be offended if anyone called me a "pagan". I would be in good company.
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong here: So what happened was the Persian form of paradise was loaned into both Hebrew and Greek. In the Septuagint Koine Greek NT the word was substituted for garden of Eden. Hebrew had become a dead language around the 1st century CE. The Jews who wrote the NT were Greek speakers. Hence paradise must have come from Persian via the Greeks and not the Jews.
     
    Correct me if I'm wrong here: So what happened was the Persian form of paradise was loaned into both Hebrew and Greek.

    It was borrowed from an Iranian language (not necessarily Persian) into Greek, Hebrew, and many other languages of the Near East.

    Hence paradise must have come from Persian via the Greeks and not the Jews.

    No, 'paradise' was borrowed from an Iranian language and used in its current sense by Greek speaking Jews.
     
    ^ The word used was Greek, which was the lingua franca of the region, but the meaning was a Jewish innovation. Read posts 10 and 11.
     
    I get it now. According to the website "Jesus was a Zoroastrian" the meaning took on the meaning of the garden after death. I recall another website that discussed how Jamsheed's (Av. Yima Khaesheta) Var was this paradise. This probably makes more sense. Var literally means enclosure. What is interesting is that this paradise in the Persian sense or Var which was built by Jamsheed was a place where men and women lived forever. If I'm not mistaken there were two rivers that passed through this var if that's any constellation. And I have notions the Hom tree or Zoroastrian tree of life grew there too. What do you think?
     
    καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ἀμήν σοι λέγω, σήμερον μετ’ ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ Παραδείσῳ.
    Luke 23:43

    עָשִׂ֣יתִי לִ֔י גַּנּ֖וֹת וּפַרְדֵּסִ֑ים וְנָטַ֥עְתִּי בָהֶ֖ם עֵ֥ץ כׇּל־פֶּֽרִי׃
    (קהלת ב ה)

    I made gardens and wooded parks for myself and planted in them every kind of fruit tree.

    I believe that at least in Hebrew it means something more like "wooded park". If it had meant "garden", it would not have been used in contrast with גִּנָּה.

    It was borrowed into classical Arabic, where it became فِرْدَوْس and simply meant "garden".
     
    By the way, in the New Testament Ἕλλην actually means “pagan” or "gentile". This is why the Christian Greeks of the Byzantine period did not call themselves “Hellenes” but “Romans”. .
    So christian Greeks stoped to call themselves hellenes, right? if this was so, what did they call their language?
    I know modern Greeks quit to call themselves Roman so when did this start again?
    By the way this reminds of the Arameans who supposedly did the same thing and started to call themselves Syrians after adopting christianity.
     
    So christian Greeks stoped to call themselves hellenes, right? if this was so, what did they call their language?
    I know modern Greeks quit to call themselves Roman so when did this start again?
    At the time of the rebellion against the Turks.
    BTW this reminds of the Arameans who supposedly did the same thing and started to call themselves Syrians after adopting christianity.
    Yes, exactly.
     
    At the time of the rebellion against the Turks.

    Yes, exactly.
    But in Nicaea, the state created after the dissolution of the Eastern Roman Empire by the crusaders of the 4th Crusade, in the 1250's, a primature Greek nationalism arose, as it was called Ἑλληνίς ἐπικράτεια-Hellenic territory, and Ἑλληνικόν-Hellenikon by its contemporaries. Until then, the Eastern Romans indeed detested the name Hellene/Greek, as it was identified with paganism, but the volatile period they experienced, lead them to seek security by clinging on to the only constant they knew, their Greek language and culture, thus affirming the continuing importance of a cultural tradition threatened by external forces
     
    The first clear use in the meaning “abode of the blessed dead” is in the New Testament (Luke 23:43 and 2 Cor. 12:4), so it is not a “Greek” (pagan) concept, but presumably a usage that originated among Hellenized Jews.
    Biblical Judaism knew the concept of a primordial “Garden of Eden” but not of a future “Abode of the Blessed”. The latter occurs in Greek tradition (“Isles of the Blessed”, “Elysian Fields”) and may have influenced Jewish beliefs about the afterlife during the Hellenistic period.

    A number of NT concepts such as moral perfection, God-likeness, eternal life, paradise and hell, tripartite division of man (body-soul-spirit), etc., are definitely Hellenistic, as are Greek terms like “Hades” (at Mat 11:23 and Luke 16:23) and “Tartarus” (at 2 Peter 2:4).

    Hades (ᾍδης) was the general term for the underworld where all dead went and Tartarus (Τάρταρος) that part of Hades where the wicked were sent for punishment following divine judgement (cf. Plato, Phaedo 111c ff). So, Paradise would have been the opposite of Tartarus and hence the “Abode of the Blessed” proper.

    Greek paradeisos in the original sense as introduced by Xenophon meant the royal park of the Persian king, the main features of which were trees and water, given that such parks were often set in an otherwise barren landscape (Plutarch, Artaxerxes 25) as well as animals (for hunting).

    The Abode of the Blessed of Greek tradition was described as a sunlit, fragrant place abounding in shady trees watered by pure streams and surrounded by meadows, with honey-sweet fruit and golden blossoms, where the blessed enjoy musical and other pleasant pastimes:

    Hesiod, Works and Days 156 ff; Pindar, Olympian Ode 2. 57 ff; Dirges Fragment 129, etc.

    And, of course, in the wake of Alexander’s conquest of the Persian Empire even royal parks or gardens would have been Hellenistic rather than Persian.

    Greek paradeisos in the first century AD (when used in the context of afterlife) would probably have evoked as much the biblical Garden of Eden as the gardenlike Blessed Isles of the Greeks - depending on the audience. Proclus later uses paradeisos in the latter sense (Commentary on Hesiod’s Works and Days 169).
     
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    Biblical Judaism knew the concept of a primordial “Garden of Eden” but not of a future “Abode of the Blessed”
    But Judaism of the late second temple period did.
    The latter occurs in Greek tradition (“Isles of the Blessed”, “Elysian Fields”) and may have influenced Jewish beliefs about the afterlife during the Hellenistic period.
    The Greek tradition never used παράδεισος in this sense. Hellenised Jews were the first to use the word is this sense.
     
    But Judaism of the late second temple period did.

    Yes, presumably under Greek influence. That's why it's called "Hellenistic Judaism".
    The Greek tradition never used παράδεισος in this sense. Hellenised Jews were the first to use the word is this sense.

    1. My statement refers to the concept: "The latter [i.e. the concept of a future "Abode of the Blessed"] occurs in Greek tradition (“Isles of the Blessed”, “Elysian Fields”) ..."

    2. Which Hellenised Jews were "the first to use the word in this sense"?
     
    That's why it's called "Hellenistic Judaism".
    No it is not. I was talking about "Judaism of the late second temple period". In the second part of my post I talked about "Hellenised Jews". Those are different things. The term "Hellenised Jews" mainly refers to Diaspora Jews living in Greece and Asia Minor, like St. Paul, who was from Tarsus.

    1. My statement refers to the concept: "The latter [i.e. the concept of a future "Abode of the Blessed"] occurs in Greek tradition (“Isles of the Blessed”, “Elysian Fields”) ..."
    Many religions have developed many different concepts of the afterlife. Only because Greek and Jewish culture developed a concept of a "nice" afterlife for those who deserve it doesn't mean one got it from the other.
     
    The doctrine of resurrection of the dead and the last judgement was accepted by the Pharisees and the Christians, but rejected by the Sadducees (the dominant sect in 2nd-temple Judaism). This doctrine was probably adopted from the Zoroastrians.
     
    The term "Hellenised Jews" mainly refers to Diaspora Jews living in Greece and Asia Minor, like St. Paul, who was from Tarsus.

    Well, you said “Hellenised Jews were the first to use the word in this sense” and you’re giving St Paul as example.

    However, as far as I’m aware Jesus used the word paradeisos before Paul:

    "Καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ἀμήν σοι λέγω, σήμερον μετ’ ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ Παραδείσῳ" - Luke 23:43

    (And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.)

    Luke 23:43 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com
    Only because Greek and Jewish culture developed a concept of a "nice" afterlife for those who deserve it doesn't mean one got it from the other.

    It isn’t only a “nice afterlife”. There is also the eternal fire of Tartarus into which the wicked are thrown as punishment, divine judgement, etc.

    Of course Judaism didn’t necessarily borrow the concept from the Greeks - that's why I said "may have influenced Jewish beliefs" - but equally, there is nothing to say that it couldn’t have done.
     
    There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus (if he was a real person) ever said anything in Greek. The little evidence he have from that Bible is, and what one would expect, that he spoke Aramaic. Luke (whoever he was) wrote the story of the life of Jesus down in Greek and most likely did so than Paul wrote his epistles.

    Paradise first occurred in Jewish texts written in Greek in the LXX in the sense of garden. In Aramaic, the word can refer to both, the Garden of Eden and the dwelling place of the righteous dead. This is all consistent with the idea the idea of resurrection is taken directly from Persian (see #34) and that Luke's use of paradise in the sense dwelling place of the righteous dead is a loan translation from Aramaic.
     
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    There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus (if he was a real person) ever said anything in Greek. The little evidence he have from that Bible is, and what one would expect, that he spoke Aramaic. Luke (whoever he was) wrote the story of the life of Jesus down in Greek and most likely did so than Paul wrote his epistles. Paradise first occurred in Jewish texts written in Greek in the LXX in the sense of garden. In Aramaic, the word can refer to both, the Garden of Eden and the dwelling place of the righteous dead. This is all consistent with the idea the idea of resurrection is taken directly from Persian (see #34) and that Luke's use of paradise in the sense dwelling place of the righteous dead is a loan translation from Aramaic.
    So, what you’re saying is that the first to use the Greek word paradeisos in the sense of “abode of the righteous dead” was not Paul but some unknown person called “Luke”?

    What are the sources for the idea of resurrection being taken "directly from Persian"?

    And which Aramaic are you referring to?
     
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    So, if the person who wrote the Gospel of Luke is unknown, he could have been a Greek or Greek-educated non-Jew as suggested by his name < Greek Λουκᾶς Loukas.

    And if he wrote before Paul, or based his work on earlier Greek sources, then Greek paradeisos in the sense of “abode of the righteous dead” wasn't first used by Hellenised Jews.

    As regards “direct borrowing from Persian”, Judah was a Persian province from 539 BC to its conquest by Alexander in 332 BC.

    Why does paradise/resurrection in Judaism appear not in the Persian period but in the Late Second Temple period, i.e., well into the Hellenistic period?

    What about hell and other related concepts? Were they also borrowed directly from Persian?

    What is the date & author/source for the Aramaic you're referring to?
     
    You mean the Talmud Yerushalmi which was composed in the fourth century AD?

    According to the Jewish Encyclopedia,

    ‘The word פַּרְדֵּס [pardes] is used metaphorically for the veil surrounding the mystic philosophy (Ḥag. 14b), but not as a synonym for the Garden of Eden or paradise to identify a blissful heavenly abode for the righteous after death. The popular conception of paradise is expressed by the term "Gan 'Eden"’.
     
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    No, it was not "composed" in the 4th century. It was finalised in the 4th century. The two Talmuds contains layers of texts accumulated over centuries. @fdb mentioned it because this is the most important text in Judeo Palestinian Aramaic. There are many texts from many centuries. That Western Aramaic was the common language in the region during the late 2nd temple period is quite well known and documented. Even the Qumran scrolls contain several Targumim (Aramaic translations of texts of the Tanakh when common people were no longer able to understand Hebrew).
     
    So, you are mentioning a text of which the Jewish Encyclopedia expressly states that it doesn't use pardes in the sense of "abode of the righteous dead".

    My question was which Aramaic texts use this word (or variations of it) in the above sense:

    "What is the date & author/source for the Aramaic you're referring to?" #39

    This was in response to your statement:

    "In Aramaic, the word can refer to both, the Garden of Eden and the dwelling place of the righteous dead." #36
     
    the sense of "abode of the righteous dead"
    then Greek paradeisos in the sense of “abode of the righteous dead”
    As implied in #31, this is not the best way to describe it. The word paradeisos didn't get a new meaning, but the entity it represented got a new sense due to changes in the Jewish culture and religion (which was also inherited by Christianity, though with more emphasis). In other words, paradeisos in both Greek Septuagint (3rd/2nd c. BC) and Greek New Testament (1st c. AD) referred roughly to the same thing (a primordial divine garden).

    It'se like the word sun (or soleil, shams, etc.). It doesn't make sense to ask when it got the sense of "the central body in our solar system". It was the sun itself that has since been understood in this new sense, not the word. There is no difference between the 1500s sun and 2000s sun.

    Some of the Jews who believed in afterlife, could have referred to heaven with the same word they normally used for Garden of Eden. If they were writing in Greek, it would have been paradeisos, and if they were righting in Aramaic, it would have been either gann eden or pardaysa.

    P.S I think the Pauline usage of paradeiso- (in 2 Corinthians, 12.4) predates Luke's.
     
    Some of the Jews who believed in afterlife, could have referred to heaven with the same word they normally used for Garden of Eden.
    Of course they could have - theoretically.

    The issue is sources and evidence, though.

    Where and when did they use pardes, pardaysa, or paradeisos in this sense prior to the NT use of it?
     
    In the end we can't know what Jesus said (if he existed and if he really said that) and what Luke translated as παράδεισος. As you correctly said, Rabbinic literature uses גן עדן in the sense of the dwelling place of the righteous dead. The LXX already translates גן עדן as παράδεισος. Everything is possible. For what it's worth, the Targum Unqelos represents גן עדן in Aramaic as גִנְּתָא דְּעֵדֶן, ginta də`eden (Hebrew-Aramaic synoptic text of Genesis, e.g. verse, ב,טו 2.15).
     
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    Where and when did they use pardes, pardaysa, or paradeisos in this sense prior to the NT use of it?
    This question is senseless for the reason mentioned, because it is two unduly fused questions:
    1) where/ when was the Garden of Eden called paradise?
    2) and where/when was this garden considered the abode of the righteous?

    For #1, as a literal usage, at the latest it would be in the 3rd c. BC when OT was translated into Greek and when Book of Enoch was written (in Aramaic).
    For #2, it would also be the same, definitely before 1st c. BC when Book of Enoch had already been finalised (so there are both pardes and "abode of the righteous" for that garden, though they are not in the same section).

    Neither #1 and #2 were mainstream because 1) mainstream Jews weren't keen to directly use a foreign word for such an important garden, and 2) they didn't believe in afterlife, in the first place. Therefore, we can mainly rely on the writings of the minority esoteric or eschatological Jewish sects. This is why the evidence for either questions is rare and also why we have so many Greek usages (because one of these fringe sects got lucky and became mainstream in a Greek speaking society).

    By the way, is there evidence to consider paradeisos itself had "the sense of the abode of the righteous dead" in NT? It could have just mean "the garden" but was understood as the garden of God (hence afterlife) because of the context.
     
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    In the end we can't know what Jesus said (if he existed and if he really said that) and what Luke translated as παράδεισος. As you correctly said, Rabbinic literature uses גן עדן in the sense of the dwelling place of the righteous dead. The LXX already translates גן עדן as παράδεισος. Everything is possible. For what it's worth, the Targum Unqelos represents גן עדן in Aramaic as גִנְּתָא דְּעֵדֶן, ginta də`eden (Hebrew-Aramaic synoptic text of Genesis, e.g. verse, ב,טו 2.15).
    The OP refers to Luke 23:43. Given that there is no “Hebrew original”, the issue is Greek paradeisos as used by Luke which, as you said, is “the first known use” of the word in this sense (#38).

    The LXX doesn’t use paradeisos for gan eden. It uses paradeisos for gan:

    “And the LORD God planted a garden (eastward in Eden)” (Genesis 2:8).

    Καὶ ἐφύτευσεν Κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον (ἐν Ἔδεμ κατὰ ἀνατολάς)”

    The 2nd-century Targum isn’t exactly prior to Luke-Paul. Besides, it doesn’t use the Persian-Greek term that supposedly occurred in Aramaic.
     
    P.S I think the Pauline usage of paradeiso- (in 2 Corinthians, 12.4) predates Luke's.

    Not necessarily. According to Church tradition Paul quotes Luke and counts his Gospel as Scripture at 1 Timothy 5:17-18:

    “For the Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,’ and, ‘The worker is worthy of his wages (Luke 10:7)’”.

    Incidentally, Church tradition also states that “Luke was by race an Antiochian” (Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica 3.4.6), which may mean that he was a Syrian. In which case, the first to use Greek paradeisos in the sense of “abode of the righteous dead” was a Hellenised (or Greek-educated) Syrian Christian.
     
    By the way, is there evidence to consider paradeisos itself had "the sense of the abode of the righteous dead" in NT? It could have just mean "the garden" but was understood as the garden of God (hence afterlife) because of the context.
    Of course it could have meant that. But the claim was made that it meant “abode of the righteous dead” in Jewish tradition because it was associated with the Persian belief in resurrection, was used in that sense in Aramaic, etc., all of which seemed rather unconnected and in any case unsupported by the evidence.

    The reality is that paradeisos in the above sense could have been a Christian innovation based on (a) the Greek word and (b) the Abode of the Blessed/Garden of God of Hellenistic tradition that is described in very similar terms.

    The main cultural, linguistic and intellectual influence at the time was Hellenistic.

    The description of the Greek Abode of the Blessed precedes that of the “Garden of Eden” by many centuries and was widely known throughout the Hellenistic world.

    Likewise, “Garden of God” (Διὸς κῆπος Dios kepos) was well-known from Greek tradition (Pindar, Pythian 9.50; Plato, Symposium 203b, etc.).

    As both Luke and Paul were Greek-educated it is clear that the word paradeisos in the NT context evoked the Hellenistic Garden of God/Heaven as much as it evoked the Divine Garden of other religions, if not more so.

    Certainly, the Greek concept of a heavenly garden predates its Jewish counterpart and may have influenced it.
     
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