Is the word'hearty" used negatively in U.K.?

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Chang_yoyo

New Member
Taiwanese Mandarin
Yesterday,when I looked up dictionaries for the word"hearty" ,I found its fourth definition in Longman dictionary is terribly weird.
hearty | meaning of hearty in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE
It says,"4 {especially British English} with a friendly, noisy, and happy manner that is not sincere"
Although I know we often use "hearty" to describe meals or someone in good way,I really long to make sure when to use this word negatively as Longman dictionary defines.
Thus, could you tell me when a British uses this word negatively? And,if possible,give me some examples, please.

[Out-of-scope request removed. DonnyB - moderator]
 
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  • Chang_yoyo

    New Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    I've never come across that usage of the word. The sample sentence they give is: • We received a hearty welcome. which, had I not seen the definition above, I would have thought was a warm and sincere one.:confused:
    Yeah,I have the same thought. Thus,is it an error in the dictionary? I find nothing about that usage on Internet.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    It seems that Longman lexicographers thought it a good idea to note an ironic use of the word.
    It think that's strange, since almost any expression can be used ironically to mean its opposite.

    Personally, I'm not very fond of people who have a "hearty" manner. That doesn't mean that in itself the word may be negative.

    There does exist a stereotype of insincere heartiness, but even the sincere type can be wearing. A hearty manner that is not sincere is often to be preferred over sincerely-felt and overtly-displayed grouchiness.
     

    Chang_yoyo

    New Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    It seems that Longman lexicographers thought it a good idea to note an ironic use of the word.
    It think that's strange, since almost any expression can be used ironically to mean its opposite.

    Personally, I'm not very fond of people who have a "hearty" manner. That doesn't mean that in itself the word may be negative.

    There does exist a stereotype of insincere heartiness, but even the sincere type can be wearing. A hearty manner that is not sincere is often to be preferred over sincerely-felt and overtly-displayed grouchiness.
    Oh…if the definition is used in an ironic way, it'll definitely make sense. Pardon me,but I just can realize a little what you said after "Personally, I'm……". Would you mind offering more information to me? Thanks.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    Oh…if the definition is used in an ironic way, it'll definitely make sense. Pardon me,but I just can realize a little what you said after "Personally, I'm……". Would you mind offering more information to me? Thanks.
    "Ironic" usage involves using an expression to mean the opposite of what it means to say. Any association of "heartiness" with insincerity is somewhat similar, but not exactly what we call "ironic use".

    I'm thinking of a certain type of person who affects a superficial, hearty manner with everyone in order to make themselves liked. The sort of person who will greet you effusively, slap you energetically on the back, and perhaps put on a show of being positive and enthusiastic about things in general. It's quite difficult to behave like that all the time, and it's also a bit tiring to be around someone who acts like that. If you think that someone's exaggerated behaviour is insincere, you will naturally dislike them.

    In moderation, it's not such a bad trait, and many people may find it attractive. I can think of much worse ones; that's why I wouldn't say it's really negative. I don't think the Longman dictionary gives an example sentence for this particular usage.


    Another positive example, where being "hearty" is associated with being friendly, and I'm sure Dickens was immediately likeable:
    In 1869 he met Dickens again at the publisher Routledge's, at a dinner in honour of Longfellow; and then Dickens was very friendly; his hearty manner was exceedingly attractive.
    Dickens
     
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    Chang_yoyo

    New Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    "Ironic" usage involves using an expression to mean the opposite of what it means to say. Any association of "heartiness" with insincerity is somewhat similar, but not exactly what we call "ironic use".

    I'm thinking of a certain type of person who affects a superficial, hearty manner with everyone in order to make themselves liked. The sort of person who will greet you effusively, slap you energetically on the back, and perhaps put on a show of being positive and enthusiastic about things in general. It's quite difficult to behave like that all the time, and it's also a bit tiring to be around someone who acts like that. If you think that someone's exaggerated behaviour is insincere, you will naturally dislike them.

    In moderation, it's not such a bad trait, and many people may find it attractive. I can think of much worse ones; that's why I wouldn't say it's really negative. I don't think the Longman dictionary gives an example sentence for this particular usage.


    Another positive example, where being "heart" is associated with being friendly, and I'm sure Dickens was immediately likeable:
    In 1869 he met Dickens again at the publisher Routledge's, at a dinner in honour of Longfellow; and then Dickens was very friendly; his hearty manner was exceedingly attractive.
    Dickens
    Thanks for your comprehensive answer first. So,when I want to use "hearty" in this way,I need an expression to make the sentence ironic, right? That's to say,we can't present this meaning and though in its written form along. To sum up,if I just write down the sentences like "His hearty manner touched me for a long time",the readers won't think I mean he isn't sincere by this sentence. Is my understanding correct?
     
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    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    To sum up,if I just write down the sentences like "His hearty manner touched me for a long time",the readers won't think I mean he isn't sincere by this sentence. Is my understanding correct?
    Perfectly. If you wrote "His hearty manner was off-putting", I would know that you thought he was feigning excessive friendliness, and that made you feel uncomfortable.
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Salesmen are often hearty - the superficial sort of 'hearty' that velisarius describes.

    And all too often Santa Claus/Father Christmas can be annoyingly hearty too. :( Ho ho humbug.
     

    Glasguensis

    Signal Modulation
    English - Scotland
    If you look carefully at the Longman entry you will see that this usage is applied directly to a person and not to their manner, breakfast, welcome etc. John is a bit hearty sometimes, for example. I think it is reasonable for the dictionary to mention this usage because it may not be obvious that it is being used ironically. They unfortunately don’t give any examples of this usage in their list.
     

    Uncle Jack

    Senior Member
    British English
    John is a bit hearty sometimes, for example. I think it is reasonable for the dictionary to mention this usage because it may not be obvious that it is being used ironically
    It would not be obvious to me, in your example. I would take the meaning of "John is a bit hearty sometimes", spoken with disapproval, to mean that John really is hearty sometimes, but I am a quiet, refined person who does not like this type of boisterousness.
     

    Glasguensis

    Signal Modulation
    English - Scotland
    I entirely agree with you - that’s why I think it was reasonable to include that usage (which I have come across) in the dictionary, since many people would react to it as you did.
    In any case I suspect that hearty is somewhat archaic in all its usages, other than in certain set expressions.
     

    Chang_yoyo

    New Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    If you look carefully at the Longman entry you will see that this usage is applied directly to a person and not to their manner, breakfast, welcome etc. John is a bit hearty sometimes, for example. I think it is reasonable for the dictionary to mention this usage because it may not be obvious that it is being used ironically. They unfortunately don’t give any examples of this usage in their list.
    Do you think whether it is a good way to use "hearty" ironically in compositions? After all, I'm quite curious about when I can use it to let others know my thoughts.
     

    Glasguensis

    Signal Modulation
    English - Scotland
    As I said in my previous post, hearty is a word which most native speakers only use in set expressions and many native speakers never use at all. I wouldn’t encourage you to use it.
     
    I think this is what Longman had in mind. Glasguensis made a similar point.

    Moving On
    - Google Books Result

    2002
    His greeting was too hearty and his speech was slurred. “Sit down, dear boy. Take a seat." He pointed to a wooden stool beside the Cold hearth.

    ===
    Cherry Ames at Hilton Hospital
    - Page 12 - Google Books Result

    Helen Wells - 2009 - ‎Juvenile Fiction
    Dr. Watson was too hearty, too noisy; Cherry dropped her own voice to a whisper. A plaster of Paris cast was put on the patient's leg.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    But any epithet, if it's accompanied by "too", will become rather negative.

    She was a little too friendly for my liking.
    He was too eager to please.
    They were too generous with their praise.
     

    Chang_yoyo

    New Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    I think this is what Longman had in mind. Glasguensis made a similar point.

    Moving On
    - Google Books Result

    2002
    His greeting was too hearty and his speech was slurred. “Sit down, dear boy. Take a seat." He pointed to a wooden stool beside the Cold hearth.

    ===
    Cherry Ames at Hilton Hospital
    - Page 12 - Google Books Result

    Helen Wells - 2009 - ‎Juvenile Fiction
    Dr. Watson was too hearty, too noisy; Cherry dropped her own voice to a whisper. A plaster of Paris cast was put on the patient's leg.
    Thanks for your information. After organizing these information,I also think it's used in some specific expressions. After all,the usage of it is too unfamiliar with most people, right?
     
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