iscritto per la prima volta al terzo anno fuori corso

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mascia73

Member
italian
  • iscritto per la prima volta al terzo anno fuori corso

Hi everybody,
I need your help for the translation of this sentence because in my attempt there is a repetition and it doesn't sound english to me.
My attempt is: He is enrolled at the third year beyond prescribed time for the first time. Awful!
Thanks in advance.
 
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  • elfa

    Senior Member
    English
    Hi mascia :)

    This is really tricky since we don't have the concept of "fuori corso" in English-speaking universities.

    Depending on context, this is one way you could say it
    He has re-enrolled for the third year of his course
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    Can someone explain what the Italian means? Re-enrolling isn't clear to me - is he repeating his third year? Or is he taking more than 1 year to complete his 3rd year?
     

    elfa

    Senior Member
    English
    My dictionary says: studente fuoricorso: university student who has failed to complete his course within the prescribed time

    studente fuoricorso
    Yes, but this is lengthy and, depending on context, you might want to shorten.

    Tegs, "fuori corso" refers to the system in Italian universities whereby students "repeat" years where they do not pass all their exams. In theory, courses are a prescribed length e.g. 4 years for economics, 7 or 8 for medicine etc (don't quote me, as this is the old system and I think it's changed now with the 3 + 2 1st degree/Masters system that's in place now). If say a student doesn't pass all the required exams in his or her 2nd year, he or she can re-enrol in theory any number of times for the 2nd year of the course in order to proceed to the 3rd year. Geddit? :) That's why traditionally there have always been older students in Italy than their counterparts in the UK - often because, for a variety of reasons (sometimes economic because students might need to work to support themselves), they need to "repeat" years. I should add that attendance at lectures isn't obligatory for every subject - which is another reason why students fail their exams.

    Same in schools - in theory, if students don't pass their end-of-year exams and also fail the re-sit in September, they have to "repeat" the year. This is what is meant by "bocciato". However, I believe there's much more effort these days to get the students "promossi", maybe to align schools more with the British or Europe-wide system.

    Anyway, just in case I'm talking bo**ocks :D, Paul can no doubt give the thumbs up (or not) to what I've written. :)
     

    mascia73

    Member
    italian
    Thanks to everybody but the problem is that it deals with a table. in the first column there is written the academic year( for example 2003/2004) and in the second column there is the year course (3° anno fuori corso per la prima volta). I mean that elfa suggestion is good but it's kind of descriptive. I need something more unpersonal.
     

    elfa

    Senior Member
    English
    Thanks to everybody but the problem is that it deals with a table. in the first column there is written the academic year( for example 2003/2004) and in the second column there is the year course (3° anno fuori corso per la prima volta).
    Then I would suggest

    First time re-enrolment for the 3rd year
     
    I don't know if things have changed recently but when I attended University in Italy things worked like this. If a course was 4 year, you were supposed to enroll in year 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 no matter if you had passed all your due exams or just a few if any.
    After year 4 you were supposed to enroll in year 1 fuori-corso (off-course?) then to year 2 and so on with no limit as long as you were willing to pay your tuition fee, regardless of your records as a student.
    I believe that things are changed recently but I don't know how, neither I am sure of.

    Reasons for Italians students to dwell for so long in Uniersities? Many.

    - Job market is not as dynamic as in the Uk so you have few desirable chance of employment which can make you quit studying

    - Parents put an high value on having a graduated son/daughter and are usually ready to pay for this even beyond what is reasonable.

    - Tuition fee were usually low and there were no student-loan systems which may result in you accumulating a ridicolous amount of debts before even starting working.

    Up to know only one thing has changed for sure: tuition fees are now all but low.

    The OP makes me think that it is now possible to enroll more time for the same year, but still this doesn't make much sense to me if referred to "off-course" years.

    I would be delighted if someone could shed light on recent developments...
     

    elfa

    Senior Member
    English
    Hi chip :)

    "off-course" doesn't really work, in my view - nor the translation given by the WR dictionary "out-of-course". In fact, I would go as far as to say they are meaningless terms to native English readers without either an explanatory footnote or prior knowledge of the Italian system.

    Let's wait for mascia's input, especially in response to your point (which I wasn't aware of) about not being able to repeat Year 1 until you have done Years 1-4.
     
    "off-course" doesn't really work, in my view - nor the translation given by the WR dictionary "out-of-course". In fact, I would go as far as to say they are meaningless terms to native English readers
    Thank you elfa, this is good to know.

    about not being able to repeat Year 1 until you have done Years 1-4.
    This how it worked when I was a student. And this is the system that accounted for the hugest part of the production of fuori corso students in Italy.

    I believe that things must have changed somehow, but I don't know how in particular...
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    Why does "repeat" not work in this context then? If you sit and fail your 3rd year, and you then retake that year, you "repeat" your third year. Could "repeated third year" work as a translation of the Italian sentence?

    Re-enrolment doesn't mean much to me. If I saw "re-enrolled for the 3rd year" on someone's form, I would take this to mean one of two things:
    1) the person has enrolled for first year twice already but has yet to actually start his course. This is the third time he is enrolling to start his degree.
    2) the person has enrolled once for 3rd year but did not in the end start that year. He took a year off university and now wants to do 3rd year for the first time (a year later than originally planned).
     

    Pat (√2)

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Why does "repeat" not work in this context then? If you sit and fail your 3rd year, and you then retake that year, you "repeat" your third year. Could "repeated third year" work as a translation of the Italian sentence?
    Uff, è un casino, Tegs. Ci sono anche gli studenti ripetenti, che sono un'altra cosa rispetto ai fuori corso. Non so come spiegarlo, questo groviglio... Metto un link, va. Lo schemino dovrebbe essere abbastanza chiaro.
    Ciò detto, può essere che per la traduzione vada bene comunque, eh?, perché non so se all'estero questa differenza faccia molta differenza, sinceramente :)
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    Grazie per il link Pat :) Se ho capito bene, in Italia un anno fuori corso potrebbe essere che ripetti il secondo anno, però alla fine del corso (allora dopo il terzo anno). Questo non si può fare da noi, ed è difficile spiegarlo in poche parole (come bisogna fare qui) nel contesto delle università del Regno Unito. Quindi, per non confondere la persona che legge il testo, penso che sia meglio scrivere "repeat". Tutti capiscono così che hai ripetuto un anno.
     

    Pat (√2)

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Grazie per il link Pat :) Se ho capito bene, in Italia un anno fuori corso potrebbe essere che ripetti il secondo anno, però alla fine del corso (allora dopo il terzo anno). Questo non si può fare da noi, ed è difficile spiegarlo in poche parole (come bisogna fare qui) nel contesto delle università del Regno Unito. Quindi, per non confondere la persona che legge il testo, penso che sia meglio scrivere "repeat". Tutti capiscono così che hai ripetuto un anno. Anche secondo me.
    E' impossibile capire :D
    Ci sono due tipi di studenti fuori corso:
    a) quelli iscritti fuori corso a un anno specifico (p. es. il III) perché non hanno dato gli esami obbligatori per passare al IV (se ci sono esami obbligatori per passare all'anno successivo);
    b) quelli iscritti fuori corso punto, perché non hanno dato tutti gli esami per laurearsi entro i tot del corso di studi normale. In questo caso, ti iscrivi fuori corso solo alla fine del corso di studi e non ti iscrivi a un anno specifico.
    :eek:
    (Ok, tranquilla: non ti interrogo :D)
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    Uffa! Ma nel secondo caso, dove non hai dato tutti gli esami, ripetti gli esami, e quella parte del corso, oppure fai per prima volta quella parte del corso e gli esami?
     

    Pat (√2)

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Uffa! Ma nel secondo caso, dove non hai dato tutti gli esami, ripetti gli esami, e quella parte del corso, oppure fai per prima volta quella parte del corso e gli esami?
    No, ma non ci saltiamo fuori :D Cerco di semplificare al massimo, perché se dovessi tirare fuori i "crediti formativi universitari" diventeremmo pazzi.
    Dunque, nel secondo caso, tutti gli esami obbligatori (se previsti) sono stati fatti, ok?, sennò saresti ancora nel primo caso. Se ci sono corsi o altre attività con obbligo di frequenza, li hai frequentati, sennò saresti uno studente ripetente. E fin qui è chiaro :eek:
    Ergo: dai gli esami che non hai dato (del I, II, III ecc. anno, non importa), o perché sei stato bocciato o perché non hai accettato il voto o perché non ti sei proprio presentato all'esame e fai le attività che non hai ancora fatto (un seminario, un laboratorio ecc.).
     

    Florio60

    Member
    English - Australia
    Hello,

    I realise that this is an old thread, but the most appropriate way of translating 'fuori corso' still doesn't seem to have been decided on. I have a similar sentence to translate (part of a university statute where mention is made of the student representatives on the Evaluation Unit):

    eletti tra gli iscritti per la prima volta e non oltre il primo anno fuori corso

    [the representatives are] elected from amongst those students enrolled for the first time or re-enrolled for the first year of their course

    but this is lengthy and, I feel, not entirely accurate. Can someone please help me with this?

    Florio
     

    joanvillafane

    Senior Member
    U.S. English
    This is so fascinating. I am only trying to understand, not translate, but is the idea of "fuori corso" here (in Florio's post #17), the same as "behind schedule" - then in this case, representatives are elected from among students enrolled for the first time and those who are no more than one year behind schedule. I realize this is a huge oversimplification, based on the detailed scenarios above. :)
     

    Florio60

    Member
    English - Australia
    in this case, representatives are elected from among students enrolled for the first time and those who are no more than one year behind schedule. I realize this is a huge oversimplification, based on the detailed scenarios above. :)
    Thank you so much for this, Joan. I'll wait and see if there are other replies, but your suggestion seems to convey the idea fairly clearly.:thumbsup:
     
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