James and me

mamboney

Senior Member
English (USA)
Which one is right? "James and me..." OR "James and I..." ?

I have a prof who says that "James and me went home" is correct.

Most (if not all) of us would say "James and I went home"

Is my prof overpaid? Can someone tell me which is right?
 
  • Kelly B

    Senior Member
    USA English
    On the other hand, Fred came home with me and James (not James and I).
    People get that one wrong even more often.
     

    nycphotography

    Senior Member
    American English
    overpaid. haha. um. maybe ;)

    You are correct and, barring some miraculous explanation of which I can't even conceptualize the existence, the Esteemed Professor is wrong.

    Unless He and James do be learnin stuff too.... at which point he and me may go home.



    I do be learnin stuff
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    If you are unsure if it should be "me" or "I" just take out the other person in the sentence and see what you would say.

    For example

    James and me went home > me went home = wrong!!
    James and I went home > I went home = right!!
    Come with James and I > Come with I = wrong!!
    Come with James and me > Come with me = right!!

    People often do get this wrong, particularly because they think that "I" is always correct so you hear phrases like "with James and I", but this is a sort of hypercorrection. :)
     

    Moogey

    Senior Member
    USA English
    It's quite simple as to why "I" is correct in this sentence-- "I" is a subject pronoun. Meaning it's used (only) when indicating that the 1st person singular is involved in the action of the verb.

    "Me" is an object and object of the prep pronoun.

    Therefore "John and I went home" (I'm doing this too, not just John)
    and "The house belongs to James and me" (The verb is "belongs" conjugated to the 3rd person singular, the house is doing the action, not John or I)

    -M
     

    mamboney

    Senior Member
    English (USA)
    nycphotography said:
    overpaid. haha. um. maybe ;)

    You are correct and, barring some miraculous explanation of which I can't even conceptualize the existence, the Esteemed Professor is wrong.

    Unless He and James do be learnin stuff too.... at which point he and me may go home.



    I do be learnin stuff
    In this prof's defense, she is NOT an English prof, but she is a LINGUIST! She speaks at least 10 languages fluently & yes she is a native English speaker.
    She says that the reason that this is the right way (James and me went home) has something to do with pronouns. It's been a long time since I heard her explanation, maybe someone out there can elaborate or figure out how her crazy mind works....

    My friends and I think she is crazy! ;)
     

    buddingtranslator

    Senior Member
    English, England
    Timpeac is completely right and has explained why in a more concise manner than I could ever have imagined.

    It's strange how in school so many of us were taught that "James and I" is correct.

    A good website explaining why your professor is not overpaid can be found on the following website. http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#37

    Best wishes,

    Budding
     

    pwa

    Member
    english; usa
    nycphotography said:
    overpaid. haha. um. maybe ;)

    You are correct and, barring some miraculous explanation of which I can't even conceptualize the existence, the Esteemed Professor is wrong.

    Unless He and James do be learnin stuff too.... at which point he and me may go home.



    I do be learnin stuff
    I think that would be "Him and James be learnin stuff...":D

    sorry...couldn't resist!
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    mamboney said:
    In this prof's defense, she is NOT an English prof, but she is a LINGUIST! She speaks at least 10 languages fluently & yes she is a native English speaker.
    She says that the reason that this is the right way (James and me went home) has something to do with pronouns. It's been a long time since I heard her explanation, maybe someone out there can elaborate or figure out how her crazy mind works....

    My friends and I think she is crazy! ;)
    Well, she's right from the point of view that such sentences are said all the time, but it seems a funny thing to encourage students to do. You will find lots of teachers will mark you down if you write or say that thinking you've made an error, so I wouldn't recommend it.
     

    buddingtranslator

    Senior Member
    English, England
    Specifically, this small section. I hope it isn't against WR Forum rules to post a section of a website such as this in a thread.

    "In addition they are confused because the word 'you' is the same in the objective case as it is in the nominative; therefore, although they would not dream of saying or writing between him and they or between her and we or between us and she, the phrase between you and I does not sound bad to them. But bad it is, and indefensible grammatically. Between is a preposition and it is followed by the objective case: me. To say between you and I is a needless, pointless, and ignorant exception to a good rule" (74).

    "James and me went home" is correct according to this rule. Although "James and I" does sound better when we say it in our heads, it cannot be gramaticcaly correct. I fear this may provoke some debate.
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    buddingtranslator said:
    Specifically, this small section. I hope it isn't against WR Forum rules to post a section of a website such as this in a thread.

    "In addition they are confused because the word 'you' is the same in the objective case as it is in the nominative; therefore, although they would not dream of saying or writing between him and they or between her and we or between us and she, the phrase between you and I does not sound bad to them. But bad it is, and indefensible grammatically. Between is a preposition and it is followed by the objective case: me. To say between you and I is a needless, pointless, and ignorant exception to a good rule" (74).

    "James and me went home" is correct according to this rule. Although "James and I" does sound better when we say it in our heads, it cannot be gramaticcaly correct. I fear this may provoke some debate.
    Certainly a bit of confusion, BT;) .

    How do you work out that that rule is saying "James and me went home" is correct?:confused:

    It's not - James and me went home> me went home = wrong!!:)
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    buddingtranslator said:
    Specifically, this small section. I hope it isn't against WR Forum rules to post a section of a website such as this in a thread.

    "In addition they are confused because the word 'you' is the same in the objective case as it is in the nominative; therefore, although they would not dream of saying or writing between him and they or between her and we or between us and she, the phrase between you and I does not sound bad to them. But bad it is, and indefensible grammatically. Between is a preposition and it is followed by the objective case: me. To say between you and I is a needless, pointless, and ignorant exception to a good rule" (74).

    "James and me went home" is correct according to this rule. Although "James and I" does sound better when we say it in our heads, it cannot be gramaticcaly correct. I fear this may provoke some debate.
    I think you are misreading your teacher's rule. The rule is that prepositions are followed by object pronouns. But there is no preposition before the pronouns in your sentence, "James and me went home".
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Ah, thanks to Outsider's post I think I see where you are going wrong.

    Yes the structure of "James and me went home" is not the same as "between you and I".

    between you and I > between I = wrong!!

    What that rule is saying is that this is one area that people very often do get wrong (and this is what I am alluding to at the end of my post 6)
     

    DAH

    Senior Member
    USA/California--English
    mamboney said:
    In this prof's defense, she is NOT an English prof, but she is a LINGUIST! She speaks at least 10 languages fluently & yes she is a native English speaker.
    She says that the reason that this is the right way (James and me went home) has something to do with pronouns. It's been a long time since I heard her explanation, maybe someone out there can elaborate or figure out how her crazy mind works....

    My friends and I think she is crazy! ;)
    Communication is an art! Perhaps, you misunderstood what you instructor said? Or perhaps your instructor does not have full command of English grammar. He and I = two subject pronouns, end of story.
     

    buddingtranslator

    Senior Member
    English, England
    Thanks to Outsider, I believe I have altered what the extract was trying to point out. You're right that it refers to prepositions and in the sentence "James and me went home" there are none.

    We had a mini discussion about this in class last Friday, I can't remember exactly what my professor was saying but he also said that "(James) and I" is incorrect. He was talking along the lines that the object pronoun is "me". I can't recall what he said now. But in any case, it was a completely different sentence. So , I think you guys are right. I stand corrected.

    BT
     
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