Jassic last names, the name Jász

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arn00b

Senior Member
English
Hi everyone. I was wondering if there are any Jassic names in Hungary today. I'm looking for names in three categories:

1. Surnames in the Jassic language, hybrid names with a Jassic element (like German/Russian Bergmanski) or Magyarized Jassic names.

2. Surnames that begin with Jász (there are place names, I know, but are there family names that start wit Jász or is it (culturally) possible to have a place name as a family name?

3. The name Jasz itself. I've read online of some Hungarians with the last name Jasz. Is this referring to the Jászság area/Jassic people or is it just a coincidence, random similarity?

Thanks in advance. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
  • francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Point 1: I don't know, but we have to take in consideration that the Jassic settlement in Hungary happened during the 13th century, while the compulsory usage of "two elements" (family name/surname + personal/christian name) was officially introduced in the 15th century (as far as I know).

    Point 2: If a surname is composed by Jász + "something" + i/y, then it indicates the provenience, e.g. Jászberényi would mean someone who comes from Jászberény, regardless of the ethnicity (like Londoner, Wiener, Prager, Rzeszówski, Katuński, Genovese, Napolitano ... Sárközy, Budai, Kassai ... ). I think a pure placename (without the ending -i/y) used as surname is very rare in Hungarian, but not impossible.

    Point 3: In my opinion the name Jász refers to the proper ethnonym (like Német, Tót, Olasz, Oláh, Horvát ...), at least in the majority of cases. Of course, the surname Jász itself doesn't prove that the given person is genetically of Jassic origin ... In other words, it doesn't refer directly to any area (in such case we would expect rather Jászi, Jászsági, etc ...).
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Hello arn00b and welcome to the forum:)

    I'm afraid we can't give any lists and the queston(s) are bit difficult to answer properly keeping ourselves to the rules but I can add a little to francis's answer above.

    No.1 needs more "digging" but I think francis is right: their presence in Hungary dates too far back to be able to tell "like that" any element that would indicate the origins - at least for normal, everyday people who didn't study the question particularly. (For the moment I have only found this article in Hungarian that mentions family names that are typical for that area, however, I cannot tell which (if any) is of Jasssic origin or having its elements: Hajdú Mihály munkájában (Családnevek enciklopédiája) a következő családneveket tekinti elsősorban a Jászság névhasználatára jellemzőnek: Csík, Csomor, Csőke, Dóka, Dósa, Gyurkó, Kapusi, Kazinczi, Kókai, Kontra, Mihályi, Vona, Zakar. = In the work by Mihály Hajdú (Encyclopedia of Family names) the following family names are considered principally as typical in the area of Jászság: (see the names above)

    No.2. It is fairly frequent to have place names (with or without the suffix "-i"*, indicating - more or less- "from") as a surname in Hungary in general. So it is not surprising to find the same happening to Jassic people. (E.g. Jászapáti, Jászfalusi. Source: the Szeged telephone directory.)
    There is also the surname Jászai and Jászay** which could be one of the most frequent of them (of different structure, though, that is difficult to decorticate).

    No.3. Agreeing with francis, I would just add that "jász" in itself is the adjective that can denote the people, their culture, anything connected to them except a place. If it is a place, it either begins with Jász and another word is added or - if you mean the area where the Jasssic population is concentrated - it is called: Jászság (something like "Jassicness", at least the suffix is often used in this sense, here it is more complicated to justify).

    *This "-i" can be replaced by "-y" (with the same meaning and pronunciation) which was a sign of nobility. An example in these forms:**
     

    arn00b

    Senior Member
    English
    Thank you so much, Francis and Zsanna. You've explained it perfectly and I got everything I needed to know. I just wanted to be 100% certain.

    I just wanted to know if the Jassic people left anything behind in terms of people's surnames, either directly (which seems unlikely, too long ago) or indirectly, such as people (not necessarily Jassic) from places named after the Jasz people. I wanted to be sure that names like Jasz and Jászapáti are not a coincidence (that I wasn't looking for "Yas" and matching it to anything I could find....) I didn't want to be matching Rus from Russia, Rus and Rossiya to Rustem and Ruslan. I wanted to be sure that Jasz- meant what I thought it meant.

    Thank you so much.
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    No.2. It is fairly frequent to have place names (with or without the suffix "-i"*, indicating - more or less- "from") as a surname in Hungary in general ...
    O.k., but do you think are place names used directly (without any ending) as surnames in Hungarian frequent? I am referring to this part of arn00b's question:
    ... is it (culturally) possible to have a place name as a family name?
    I don't remember Hungarian names like e.g. Miskolc Péter, Kassa János, Kolozsvár Emil, Pozsony Géza ... This doesn't mean that such names do not exist, of course, but I have the impression that they are rather very rare. For comparison, in Italy surnames like Bologna, Torino ... (mostly Jewish family names) perhaps aren't typical as well, but in my opinion more frequent. But I may be also wrong ...
    There is also the surname Jászai and Jászay** which could be one of the most frequent of them (of different structure, though, that is difficult to decorticate).
    I'm not sure, but I suppose that jászai is an older adjective from Jászó, a small town in the Košice (Hung. Kassa) region in the present day Slovakia. If so, than the surname Jászai/Jászay has etymologically nothing to do with the Jassic people.
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I think there are quite a lot of surnames that originally indicate a settlement/geographical names without the -i (= from) in the end, although surely much less than those with the "-i/y" in the end. With the -i suffix it sounds much more "natural", I agree. (In this little summing up, too, they only mention those with -i but it is very concise, so no surprise.)

    Some examples: Kálló, Pordány, Kalocsa, Trencsén, Fejér és Hont (if they come from the county names) etc.
    I have noticed that in German originating names it was quite frequent to have a name that indicated a settlement. Maybe this "without the -i suffix" phenomenon originates from that.

    You may be right with the explanation about Jászai/Jászay but I don't know.
     
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