Just In Time

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RhoKappa

Senior Member
Standard American English
This expression refers to perfect timing, especially when an act was needed at that time. Here are some examples.

1. Sergei and Lena bought the air conditioner just in time for summer.
2. The children came home just in time for dinner.
3. The runners finished the race just in time.

Google translates "just in time" as как раз вовремя, but when I enter "just in time for summer," it translates to как раз к лету, so I am not sure what the correct translation is, and when to use как раз к (dative?). Как сказать по-русски?
 
  • Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Google is basically right: usually it will be "как ра́з во́время" without specifying arguments and "как ра́з к чему́-л." if the arguments are present (adding both, "во́время к чему́-л." :cross: , is impossible).

    Some other options are possible (like "аккура́т к чему́-л.").
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    since "вовремя" and "к кому-л./чему-л." aren't directly related there
    Could you please clarify a little bit this point? Not sure that I understand what it means "aren't directly related there".

    You may notice that "к" in the absolute majority of these cases belong to some isolated part of the sentence (which is separated by a comma, by a dash etc.).
    You are right, I have noticed it. However, I have also noticed that some links on the first page of the search engine results lead to the books which have been written by the professional writers, for example, this link Комната страха or this one Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина. So I think that at least we shouldn't say that "adding both, "во́время к чему́-л." :cross: , is impossible". ;)
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I have also noticed that some links on the first page of the search engine results lead to the books which have been written by the professional writers, for example, this link Комната страха or this one Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина. So I think that at least we shouldn't say that "adding both, "во́время к чему́-л." :cross: , is impossible". ;)
    I also think вовремя к чему-либо is wrong (if considered as single contsruction).

    For example, here, a comma seems to be missed:
    Зато успела как раз вовремя, к моменту знакомства Макса и бабушек.
    Вовремя and к моменту знакомства are equal modifiers of time.

    And here, "к забору сада" relates to поспели and doesn't relate to "вовремя", and it can be easily moved in the sentence:
    Обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада.
    К забору сада обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя.
    Обе девушки поспели к забору сада как раз вовремя.
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    [Поспели [вовремя] [к забору сада]] is not [Поспели [вовремя [к забору сада]]]. "К забору сада" here has a SPATIAL meaning, to begin with, and is entirely unrelated to "вовремя". (Cross-posted.)
    Historically "professional writers" always had to rely on professional editors and correctors. Now they mostly rely on Microsoft Word, which has such unfortunate results.

    P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.
     
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    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    I also think вовремя к чему-либо is wrong (if considered as single contsruction).
    It can't be a single construction. "Вовремя" is an adverb which relates to the verb and modifies it. "К чему-либо" is an indirect object which also relates to the same verb. There is no any relation between the adverb and the indirect object. Сould you please advise to me an example in Russian where an adverb and an indirect object form a single construction?

    And here, "к забору сада" relates to поспели and doesn't relate to "вовремя", and it can be easily moved in the sentence:
    Обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада.
    К забору сада обе девушки поспели как раз вовремя.
    Обе девушки поспели к забору сада как раз вовремя.
    Yes, you are right. "К забору сада" relates to the verb "поспели" and not to the adverb "вовремя". But as far as I know any indirect object (the same as a direct one) relates to the verb and not to the adverb which just modifies this verb. For example,
    Парень шел быстро к станции
    К станции парень шел быстро
    Парень к станции шел быстро

    Here the indirect object "к станции" also relates to the verb "шел" and not to the adverb "быстро". But nevertheless for the moment I can't see the connection beetween the fact that the indirect object always relates to the verb and your suggestion that the phrase "(как раз) вовремя к чему-либо" is wrong.
     
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    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    "К забору сада" here has a SPATIAL meaning, to begin with, and is entirely unrelated to "вовремя".
    Does it mean that the phrase "Он пришел вовремя на стройплощадку" is also wrong, because "на стройплощадку" has a SPATIAL meaning, and "вовремя" doesn't have this meaning?

    P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.
    Ok. I am not a linguist. I would only like to say that for an ordinary person like me, the phrase "(как раз) вовремя к чему-либо" doesn't sound weird at all.
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Does it mean that the phrase "Он пришел вовремя на стройплощадку" is also wrong, because "на стройплощадку" has a SPATIAL meaning, and "вовремя" doesn't have this meaning?
    You're losing the point. "Вовремя на стройплощадку" is not a phrase at all, it's two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal and one spatial, both independently modifying some verb (hence there can be no restrictions on their co-occurence). "Как раз вовремя к обеду" IS a phrase (it must be). Which is illiterate and barely grammatical, as a matter of fact.
     
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    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.
    Ok. I am not a linguist. I would only like to say that for an ordinary person like me, the phrase "как раз вовремя к чему-либо" doesn't sound weird at all.
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    You're losing the point. "Вовремя на стройплощадку" is not a phrase at all, it's two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal and one spatial, both independently modifying some verb (hence there can be no restrictions on their co-occurence). "Как раз вовремя к обеду" IS a phrase (it must be). Which is illiterate and barely grammatical, as a matter of fact.
    Ok. Then what is the difference between "вовремя на стройплощадку" и "вовремя к забору сада" if both of them are not phrases and both of them are two independent adverbial phrases, one temporal (вовремя) and one spatial (на стройплощадку/к забору сада)?
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Because "*как раз вовремя к обеду" :cross: is "*как раз вовремя к моменту начала обеда" :cross:, obviously.
    By the way, "вовремя" and "как раз вовремя" aren't exactly interchangeable.
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Because "*как раз вовремя к обеду" :cross: is "*как раз вовремя к моменту начала обеда" :cross:, obviously.
    By the way, "вовремя" and "как раз вовремя" aren't exactly interchangeable.
    Ok. Then what about "вовремя к забору сада"?
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    Ok. Then what about "вовремя к забору сада"?
    Thry are equal modifiers (of time and place):
    Поспели (когда?) вовремя (куда?) к забору сада.
    Cf.:
    Поспели вовремя к открытию. :cross:
    Поспели вовремя, к открытию. :tick: (вовремя and к открытию refer to one the same moment).
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Thry are equal modifiers (of time and place):
    Поспели (когда?) вовремя (куда?) к забору сада.
    Cf.:
    Поспели вовремя к открытию. :cross:
    Поспели вовремя, к открытию. :tick: (вовремя and к открытию refer to one the same moment).
    I think there is some misunderstanding here. The starting point for the discussion was the following phrase:
    "во́время к чему́-л." :cross: , is impossible).
    But the phrase "поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада" that we can see in the link Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина totally fits the construction "вовремя к чему-либо". And I can't see any difference between the phrase "поспели вовремя к забору сада" and "поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада". Maybe Awwal12 has meant that the phrase "вовремя к какому-либо событию" was impossible without segregation by a comma or by a dash? I would agree with that. But as I could understand from his explanation, he suggested that the phrase "поспели вовремя к забору сада" is also unacceptable.
    P.S.: I wouldn't call "как раз вовремя к чему-л." strictly ungrammatical, of course, but it's certainly unacceptable in the literary language.
    So I wonder why the phrase "Он пришел (как раз) вовремя на стройплощадку" is acceptable and the phrase "Она поспела (как раз) вовремя к забору сада" is unacceptable?
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I think there is some misunderstanding here. The starting point for the discussion was the following phrase:

    But the phrase "поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада" that we can see in the link Ксения Годунова. Соломония Сабурова. Наталья Нарышкина totally fits the construction "вовремя к чему-либо". And I can't see any difference between the phrase "поспели вовремя к забору сада" and "поспели как раз вовремя к забору сада".
    The difference seems to me very clear: in one single construction к чему-нибудь cannot refer to the same moment of time that with вовремя. Summer and dinner in the initial post mean moments of time, and к забору is a place.

    So успеть вовремя к обеду and успеть как раз вовремя к обеду are wrong.
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Summer and dinner in the initial post mean moments of time, and к забору is a place.
    Ok. But "summer" and "dinner" in the initial post are just two examples. You can also do something "just in time" to some place. For example, "The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufacter".
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Ok. But "summer" and "dinner" in the initial post are just two examples. You can also do something "just in time" to some place. For example, "The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufacter".
    You are missing the structure, I am afraid. If the children came home just in time for dinner, it cannot be reduced to "the children came home for dinner" without considerable changes in the meaning.
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    You are missing the structure, I am afraid. If the children came home just in time for dinner, it cannot be reduced to "the children came home for dinner" without considerable changes in the meaning.
    Ok. Does it mean that the sentence "The spare parts have been supplied just in time to the automobile manufactuer" can be reduced to "The spare parts have been supplied to the automobile manufacter" without considerable changes in the meaning?
     

    Okkervil

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia (NW)
    Сергей и Лена могли купить кондиционер "как раз к лету", а могли и "успеть купить его к лету". Дети могли вернуться домой "как раз к обеду", а могли и "чуть не опоздать к обеду". Третий пример еще более двусмысленен.

    Сам вопрос поставлен некорректно. Топикстартер. как обычно, не дал контекста к каждому из своих примеров, собственных попыток перевода не привел. В наличии лишь удивление, что транслятор меняет перевод, когда тот изменяет исходный текст. Чудно, однако.
     
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