Kânun and Teşrin

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littlepond

Senior Member
Hindi
Merhaba, hello everyone!

I am still a beginner in learning Turkish, so if I am asking something very obvious, please forbear with me.

In the book I'm learning Turkish from, it also tells me some of the obsolete names for some months such as January (e.g., "İkinci Kânun" or "Son Kânun"). So something like "second Kânun" (with December being the "first Kânun."). I was wondering what "Kânun" means: I guess it must be different from "kanun" (law)? I searched for "Kânun" in the dictionary here, but could only find "kanun" with the law, code meaning. (Is there a good Turkish-English dictionary online, which has meanings of both modern and obsolete words?) Similarly no findings for the word "Teşrin" (in obsolete names for October and November).

Also, given the circumflex accent on "a" in "Kânun," would it pronounced as if it were "Kyanun"?

Thanks in advance!
 
  • cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    If you can read Arabic letters, this is كانون not قانون, so a different word, and only قانون is law.
    I didn't know those months name were used in Turkish, interesting. They pertain to the Assyrian Calendar (check the Wikipedia page, I hope it will give you helpful information, at least as a starter).

    Based on the Arabic spelling, I don't think it can be pronounced kyanun and that the circumflex accent is only used to indicate the length of the vowel. But let's wait for Turkish speakers to confirm or correct this.
     

    Torontal

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Yes the two kanuns are different, if they still used the Arabic script you could see the "law" kanun was written قانون , it was taken from Arabic and ultimately it is from the Greek kanon. The month name kanun كانون originally comes from the Syraic/Assyrian calendar, also through Arabic. It originally means "hearth", "furnace", "oven", "stove" and it was only translated to its Turkish equivalent "ocak" in the middle of the 20th century.

    For pronounciation:
    "Kanun-ı evvel" anlamı ve okunuşu

    Same with teşrin, this month name is also from the Syraic/Assyrian calendar through Arabic. And the same is true for some month names which are still used in Turkish: şubat (February), nisan (April), haziran (June), temmuz (July), eylül (September), they are all from there.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Thanks a lot, everyone: learnt a lot! Hadn't imagined this question would bring such wealth of information.
     

    misi2991

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    We sometimes use archaic words in colloquial Turkish, but "kânun" and "teşrin" are definitely not among them. In fact, it is really odd that a book that teaches Turkish contains such words as "kânun" and "teşrin". No native speaker of Turkish today would utter those words.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    I was wondering that when I write the sentence "kânunları sevmem"* (to mean I don't like the kânun months, i.e. December and January), why Google Translate gives it in English as "I don't like babies" (and if I change to "Kânunları sevmem," Google Translate then gives "I don't like women").

    (Of course, given that the month name is not used in Turkish anymore, Google Translate probably does not know what this is, but still, why babies and women? Does anyone have an idea?)

    *I got the full sentence "Eski tabirle kânunları yani aralık ve ocak aylarını sevmem." from the dictionary linked to in post no. 4.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    We sometimes use archaic words in colloquial Turkish, but "kânun" and "teşrin" are definitely not among them. In fact, it is really odd that a book that teaches Turkish contains such words as "kânun" and "teşrin". No native speaker of Turkish today would utter those words.
    Yes, it seems a bit odd in that case; it is a 1986 book. Maybe these words were still used at times way back then?
     

    misi2991

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    I was wondering that when I write the sentence "kânunları sevmem"* (to mean I don't like the kânun months, i.e. December and January), why Google Translate gives it in English as "I don't like babies" (and if I change to "Kânunları sevmem," Google Translate then gives "I don't like women").

    (Of course, given that the month name is not used in Turkish anymore, Google Translate probably does not know what this is, but still, why babies and women? Does anyone have an idea?
    That's just the way Google Translate is. Don't count on it.
     
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