Kosher, halal, ...

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In these days, with so much violence, I have been wondering about the concept of [things and acts being] kosher, halal [or not]. What would be the equivalent of this 'ethical standard' (...) in your language, and what is the origin of that word?

    If there is a specific negative concept, please add that.

    (In part there will be an overlap with a previous thread about purity, cleanliness, etc. So feel free to copy the answer into this thread if useful... )
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  2. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I suppose I can safely list these at least:

    Hebrew: kosher vs. ? [I don't know whether it means 'clean']

    Arabic: halal vs. haram [included and excluded ?]
    Dutch: rein vs. onrein [which is an old adjective meaning 'clean', but now only in some kind of ethical context]

    In Greek (copied from the thread, I suppose it will be the equivalent of kosher/ halal, at least to some extent):

  3. arielipi Senior Member

    Kosher כשר means something that is (religiously speaking) ok by the law, modern hebrew expanded it to anything that is allowed by the law - stealing stuf is not kosher.
    IDF's actions are kosher.

    The opposite of it is Tame טמא (religious speaking again).
    Modern hebrew has put instead other words that say something is wrong/not by the law.

    Haram is a borrowed word in hebrew, it means something like "why to?" - if an action is futile, haram fits - why to do a futile action, etc etc.
    Halal is also a word in hebrew (religiously equivalent to tame but for dead humans, fallen warriors and inanimate stuff) and modern hebrew has put it for fallen people.
  4. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Interesting observations! However, I am not sure I can follow. Can I say right and wrong for kosher/tame? And as for haram/ halal: futile, meaningless vs. wrong? Can any of those be used in an every-day context, like the house?
  5. arielipi Senior Member

    Kasher and Tame arent moral related, theyre only factual, therefore right and wrong cant be used with those words. e.g. if a state has a killing sentence in the law than delivering such decision is kosher - is it right or wrong? thats one's opinion and irrelevant.

    haram is a borrowed word and not related to wrong vs futile,meaningless. it is simply what i said it is in my previous post.
    halal is a hebrew word and same sentence as above.
    what do you mean by used in an every-day context *like the house*?
    what house?
  6. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, just to family life. Some words may have a very "every-day life meaning", like 'clean', and a very special, religious, ... one.

    But kasher/ tame: factual? I don't think any rule-related judgment is purely factual. What one can say is that it complies with rules valid at that time, and to that extent that may be factual, but it is often not that simple. it is right or wrong as far as the rules are concerned, isn't it?
  7. arielipi Senior Member

    All of these words are used when needed, i'd say theyre everyday use like any other word that belongs to a certain subject.

    They are purely factual - either an animal is kosher or not; the moral of eating an animal is not part of the kosherness of the animal.
  8. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Indeed it is:
    Kosher/halal: «Καθαρός, -ρή, ρό» [kaθa'ros] (masc.), [kaθa'ri] (fem.), [kaθa'ro] (neut.) < Classical Gr. adj. «καθαρός, -ὰ, -όν» kătʰārós (masc.), kătʰārà (fem.), kătʰārón (neut.) --> physically clean, spotless, pure, unmixed (with unknown etymology).
    And adding:
    Tame/haram: «Ακάθαρτος, -ρτη, -ρτο» [a'kaθartos] (masc.), [a'kaθarti] (fem.), [a'kaθarto] (neut.) which is the compound of privative prefix «α-» a- + Classical adj. «καθαρτός, -ρτὴ, -ρτόν» kătʰārtós (masc.), kătʰārt(fem.), kătʰārtón (neut.) --> purged, purified

    Moderator note: Etymological question spawned off to here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2014
  9. sound shift

    sound shift Senior Member

    Derby (central England)
    English - England
    "Haram" is sometimes translated as "forbidden". 'By scripture' seems to be understood - but if someone said "That's forbidden" in English, most native speakers would probably not assume 'by scripture'.

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