Kurdish/Persian: روژکا/ružkâ

PersoLatin

Senior Member
UK
Persian - Iran
I understand this is made up of روژ + کا with روژ meaning روز/ruz “day”, my question is, what does kâ/کا mean exactly?

Meanings given online are not convincing.

It is a (modern) feminine given name also used in this greeting: روژکا نیک (good day??)
 
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  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    From the net, PersoLatin.
    در زبان کردی به معنای منبع نور یا آفتاب معنی شده است.نام دختر می باشد

    روژکا از دو سیلاب تشکیل شده است "روژ" به معنای روز و"کا" به معنای کان یا منبع

    در شمال کردستان یک قوم به این اسم زندگی می کنند که یکی از بزرگان آنان حضرت غوث عبدالقادرگیلانی(470 ه .ق) بوده است که مردم کرد از وی به عنوان یکی از عرفا و مشایخ طریقت یاد می کنند.

    (اولین کسی که موفق شد در ایران با مجوز اداره ثبت احوال نامش روژکا شود دختری است که در سال 1385 در تهران به دنیا آمد ).(سایت)
    Is this what you found?
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Is this what you found?
    Yes & one other :)

    This came from a Zoroastrian friend who says روژکانیک is used by Zoroastrians currently, as well as Dari speakers, he also told me the greeting is pronounced as ružkân-yak (i.e. 2 syllables with نیک/good being split over the syllable boundary, yet maintaining the نیک meaning) *

    * The lines in the brackets are my understanding/reading of the way it is supposed to be pronounced.

    I think نیک is very likely pronounced in the classical style which you know more about than me, so I think it is much more likely to be pronounced as ružkâ-neyk (neyk is my attempt at classical pronunciation)
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I am wondering (guessing) if روژکا is the Kurdish equivalent of the Persian روزگار, one meaning of which is "day". So روژکا خوش and روژکا نیک would mean "Good Day" as you have surmised.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    What I mean is, if this term is also used in Dari then I would’ve expected روزگار rather than روژکا.
     
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    eskandar

    Moderator
    English (US)
    This came from a Zoroastrian friend who says روژکانیک is used by Zoroastrians currently, as well as Dari speakers
    Are you sure your friend meant Dari Persian and not Zoroastrian Dari? The word turns up virtually no results on Google, so it's likely that it's either a mistake or used only by a small community.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Are you sure your friend meant Dari Persian and not Zoroastrian Dari? The word turns up virtually no results on Google, so it's likely that it's either a mistake or used only by a small community.
    Thanks eskandar, I asked for clarification & Zoroastrian Dari must be what he meant but here’s what he said:
    روزگارهمگی نیک یا بزبان دری پارسی (روژکانیک) که از بعد از بامداد تا شب گفته می‌شود. و زردشتی ها هنوزهم میگویند
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ So, it is very likely that روژکا and روزگار are one and the same.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    So, it is very likely that روژکا and روزگار are one and the same.
    Yes, that is what is claimed but I can’t see how that can be, in that case we should expect them to say پروردکا، ماندکا for پروردگار & ماندگار etc..
     
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    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic, Persian
    I can’t see how that can be, in that case we should expect them to say پروردگا، ماندکا for پرورگار & ماندگار etc..
    Well how do you know they don't? Zoroastrian Dari is not Persian, it is a part of the Central dialect group of Northwestern Iranian. If this phrase under discussion is in fact from Zoroastrian Dari (which is called Dari by it's speakers, but has nothing to do with the Dari of Afghanistan), then you shouldn't expect it to be very similar to Persian.
     

    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic, Persian
    I will add that روزگار supposedly comes from MP rōzkār "a day's work", this might explain the ک in place of گ, and Northwestern Iranian languages usually have ژ in place of ز in the word for "day".
     

    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic, Persian
    Well I don’t know but where is the final ر / r, I have no problems with ز -> ژ
    Also, if we are to go by Wiktionary's etymology of روزگار (=rōzkār), the گار in روزگار is different in origin from the گار in words like پروردگار، ماندگار etc.
     

    Derakhshan

    Senior Member
    Arabic, Persian
    So, I've been unable to find anything to support the Wiktionary etymology of روزگار as rōzkār "a day's work".

    Here it is actually called a "nominative agentive suffix":
    TITUS Text Retrieval: Query Result

    That would in fact make it the same as the گار in پروردگار etc.

    But finding any more information on this word's etymology is proving hard for some reason.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    I believe کا in روژکا is the same as گاه with the meaning of ‘time’, making روژکا’s meaning ‘daytime’. This makes sense in its use in the the greeting روژکانیک ‘good day’.

    The Persian equivalent is روزگاه،, like we have شامگاه، شبگاه and شبانگاه, whether Zoroastrian Dari also has شامکا or شبکا needs more research.

    روژکا in the context of the greeting can’t therefore mean روزگار which is typically a period of time longer than a day.
     
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    rarabara

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    I understand this is made up of روژ + کا with روژ meaning روز/ruz “day”, my question is, what does kâ/کا mean exactly?

    Meanings given online are not convincing.

    KURDISH

    روز/ruz does not mean "day" in kurdish ,but I am not sure for some of its dialects (also this word's original version might be in zazaki language) (For instance "navruz" or "nevroz (same pronunciation and meaning with "rus/ruz ") this probably means "spring's day")
    I mean, that the original pronunciation of this word is not being read as "ruz/rus" ,its original reading is "roj"(Day))

    کا can mean different meanings. Our region does not directly use for this meaning (but is not rare,it is common)

    "when" like this usage

    كا تُ هاتي ا زی ڤی ب دم تئ (When you come ,I shall give it to you)

    or preposition or exclamation and question particcle (Where!?) suffixing with نیە .
    ! کا کانیە او (Where is that/he/she/it!) (Where! (exclamation in use)


    It is a (modern) feminine given name also used in this greeting: روژکا نیک (good day??)

    I do not recognize this expressions in kurdish
    we say "roj baş" ("رئژ باش"or "rojate b ğer" ("رۆژا تە ب خر " as: "good days")

    in first expression,probablt you correctly wrote but pronunciate wrong.
     
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    rarabara

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    The equivalent of this in Persian is:
    ruzat bexeyr/روزت بخیر “[may] your day be good”
    this means that these are almost same.
    we just use "j" (and with "o" wovel) in day word thus "roj" and not "ruz"
     
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    rarabara

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Exactly, thank you.

    Do you use نیک meaning “good”, it is pronounced nik or neyk?
    no.
    we generally use َباش or خَْش for that. but while first one is general, the second one is generally for taste/foods or weather conditions etc.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    we generally use َباش or خَْش for that. but while first one is general, the second one is generally for taste/foods or weather conditions etc.
    I understand خَْش as it is the same as Persian خوش, but isn’t َباش the third person singular of “to be”, which is the same in Persian too (formal Persian باشد) ?

    So where is “خش/good/well”, maybe the greeting has been shortened and خش is implied?
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Do you use نیک meaning “good”, it is pronounced nik or neyk?
    Good Morning PersoLatin. As a matter of interest, in Urdu the word نیک has two meanings.

    1. "Pious" and this is in contrast to the word "بد".

    2. "Good" as in نیک خوھشات- "Good wishes"

    In Classical Persian, there is another meaning of نیک "well" and "very". Here is a quote from "chahaar maqaalah" by Nizami 'Aaruzi Samarqandi.

    چنان کردند کہ خواجہ گفت۔ خوردنی پیش او بردند و او ہمے خورد و بعد از آن، ھرچہ از اشربہ و ادویہ خواجہ فرمودے بدو دادندے و گفتند کہ "نیک بخور کہ این گاورا نیک فربہ کند. او بشنودے و بخوردے بر آن امید کہ فربہ شود تا او را بکُشند۔

    Background to this piece is that a man was suffering from melancholy and thought he was a cow. He was n't eating eating any normal food and at times would eat hay and grass etc.

    "They did as the Master had said. They took food to him and he started to eat. After that, whatever drinks and medicines the Master ordered, they brought to him and said, "Eat well because this makes/will make the cow very fat. He listened and ate on the hope that he becomes fat and they slaughter him."
     

    eskandar

    Moderator
    English (US)
    isn’t َباش the third person singular of “to be”, which is the same in Persian too (formal Persian باشد) ?
    No, baş (باش) in Kurdish means "good". It has nothing to do with the Persian باشد , their similarity is just a coincidence. For example, "ez Kurdî baş nizanim" = I don't know Kurdish well.
     

    rarabara

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    I understand خَْش as it is the same as Persian خوش,
    hi,
    almost same or same :tick:

    but isn’t َباش the third person singular of “to be”,?
    if you are asking the declension, then yes. باش's pronoun declension is third person singular and its declension with other pronouns are as below as well

    باشم (I)
    باشي (you)
    باش (he,she,it)
    باشن (we)
    باشن (you)
    باشن (they)

    note, please I have not written the harrakas so, you might confuse some. But I can say that we,you(plural) and they pronouns are declensioned same.

    which is the same in Persian too (formal Persian باشد)
    I have no idea really about the originality of this opinion. Because in this word ,there is a letter that I could not recognise "د"

    So where is “خش/good/well”, maybe the greeting has been shortened and خش is implied?

    if you say "سلم،ون جەوانن کف هلو جوی ؟"
    this is perfectly acceptable and is used for an entrance sentence when you enter a new area/place that people have mutual activitiy in it
    in fact we use خش word more correctly as in خُوَشَ (reading a bit fast, "ğweş") but sometimes and someone can directly use خش while it is not exactly correct to me.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Thank you Qureshpor & Good Day to you too.

    As a matter of interest, in Urdu the word نیک has two meanings.

    1. "Pious" and this is in contrast to the word "بد".
    Both نیک and خوب can take on the meaning "Pious", equally "بد" can mean "evil" as well as "bad" and many other similar meanings.

    2. "Good" as in نیک خوھشات- "Good wishes"
    نیک خوھشات- "Good wishes" and I am sure "Well wishes"

    نیک بخور کہ این گاورا نیک فربہ کند

    I don’t see any difference in the meaning in the two occurrences نیک above, they both mean well, the same way خوب means good and well. both نیک’s act as adverbs on خوردن and on فربه کردن, in the latter you can compare نیک with well in "well understood", so "well fattened"
     
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    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    if you are asking the declension, then yes. باش's pronoun declension is third person singular and its declension with other pronouns are as below as well

    باشم (I)
    باشي (you)
    باش (he,she,it)
    باشن (we)
    باشن (you)
    باشن (they)

    note, please I have not written the harrakas so, you might confuse some. But I can say that we,you(plural) and they pronouns are declensioned same.
    Thank you rarabara, eskandar (see below) has explained that باش means "good" in Kurdish and not "be" as I had wrongly assumed which had confused me.

    So what does باشم or باشي mean here pls, based on its meaning I'd say "I am good" and "you are good"??

    No, baş (باش) in Kurdish means "good". It has nothing to do with the Persian باشد , their similarity is just a coincidence. For example, "ez Kurdî baş nizanim" = I don't know Kurdish well.
     

    rarabara

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Thank you rarabara, eskandar (see below) has explained that باش means "good" in Kurdish and not "be" as I had wrongly assumed which had confused me.
    So what does باشم or باشي mean here pls, based on its meaning I'd say "I am good" and "you are good"?? :tick:

    باشم : means "I am good" (I had already emphasised the declension ,not the grammatical sturucture itself.)
    باشي : means you are good (but singular pronoun))
     
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