LA: مَتْرَحْ , مِتْرُحْ - مَطْرَح ما تروح

[rarabara]

hi,
may I ask what is the difference between these two words?
I know that this is potential for anyone who see this question could raise a question ,saying: "where did you see these two words" or "could you provide us a sample of the use in a sentence"
in this case I simply refer to Elissa's song ,named : kermalak. (2.10-2.25)
I heard these words there.

personal opinions: to me, both of these words are each a type of passive participle. But I have no idea what the duty of the words were (for instance : adverb, adjective,...etc)

...
a specific question: in fact, I have not unfortunately completed all the works yet , what is more the completed parts were not checked . Though ,I wondered these words,so if you have any recommendation (e.g. if you advise me to make checks or complete all the works please let me know. (especially I wonder moderator's idea)

Thanks.

 

[wriight]

The line she sings is خلاني روح مطرح ما تروح, "it made me go wherever you'd go".

There are strains of Lebanese dialects that have drastically reduced emphasis, to the point where the emphatic consonants become either identical to the plain ones or close enough to fool speakers of other dialects. Elissa's dialect is in the latter camp: her fat7a in مطرح is an ever-so-slightly more low+back vowel than it would be had the word been مترح. Make sure to pay attention to vowel quality. (I remember her rendition of موطني caught similar flak from many Arabs for sounding like موتني.)

We pronounce ما المصدرية with a short vowel, and it does sound like Elissa additionally has it as مِ instead of مَ. I don't know the reason for this, but it's all ما anyway. Meanwhile, there's a long vowel in تروح, but the cadence of the song may have prevented it from sounding as long as it normally would.

مطرح is a noun meaning "place", but it's been grammaticalized in the construction مطرح ما, which acts as a conjunction meaning "where/wherever". تروح is just a verb.

 

[rarabara]

to be honest, i am feeling myself too much surprised. in fact, i was not completely unaware from such nuances but all in all whenever come across to such points feel myself too strange.

and may i ask how do you pronunce or differ these two normal cases?

for instance : مِتْرَح and ماترح based on the information you provided.

meanwhile, many thanks for your nice explanation.

 

[cherine]

There are strains of Lebanese dialects that have drastically reduced emphasis, to the point where the emphatic consonants become either identical to the plain ones or close enough to fool speakers of other dialects.

Some Egyptians do the same (and I hate it). Sometimes it sounds as if someone acting too delicate to pronounce the emphatic consonants properly, and sometimes it just sound like the person is illiterate. And you get confusing things like الصيف becoming السيف, or words like ساحبي (in stead of صاحبي).

Meanwhile, there's a long vowel in تروح, but the cadence of the song may have prevented it from sounding as long as it normally would.

Thank you! I was confused by the مِترُح in the first post and thread title and couldn’t imagine its source. Note it’s clear.
Again to compare with the Egyptian dialect, our long vowels are still shorter than in the Levantine ones. For example the vocative يا surprised me when I heard it for the first time in the Syrian/Egyptian series أسمهان and it took me a while to realize that the actors do indeed pronounce the vowel long, unlike us.

may i ask how do you pronunce or differ these two normal cases?

for instance : مِتْرَح and ماترح based on the information you provided.

Well, I’m not sure how to explain the pronunciation, but I can assure you that it’s a ط not a ت in the first word, so you need to differentiate the pronunciation if the (t) in مَطْرَح and the (t) in ما تْرُوح and make the ط clearly more emphatic مُفَخَّمة than ت.

 

[rarabara]

Well, I’m not sure how to explain the pronunciation, but I can assure you that it’s a ط not a ت in the first word, so you need to differentiate the pronunciation if the (t) in مَطْرَح and the (t) in ما تْرُوح and make the ط clearly more emphatic مُفَخَّمة than ت.

may I ask: did you make this assessment or remark based on the given source? (Elissa)
actually as you previously mentioned that some artists were singing by the other dialects than their own, I gave the probability to that for Elissa ,too. so ,I had not define any dialect (but I knew that Elissa was lebanese). But thanks for clarification.

mm ,I need to express a point. I think ,yes for MSA, I am & will be too much (self) confident. but it seems that it would be wrong to have the same belief for any else dialect.

simply, I thought with the conformity of the idea of MSA.