Latency <in> the appearance

< Previous | Next >

NewAmerica

Banned
Mandarin
Is "in" used properly here? If the appearance of symptoms shows itself, then the latency will be over. The collocation of "latency" and "appearance" appears to be odd to me and that is why I made the latest thread with the similar title.

It seems to me that "Latency before the appearance of symptoms" may be more accurate. It is exactly the latency during which symptoms don't appear that misleads TCM doctors and patients. But I am not sure.

The question of this thread is: Is "in" used properly here?
*********************
This analysis is rarely done in the practice of traditional medicine where diagnosis and treatment are guided by principles of a complex, ancient healing system based on the principles of yin and yang, elements linked to organ systems of the body, the emotions, the climates, the seasons, and tastes.Latency in the appearance of symptoms is likely to temporarily obscure chronic kidney disease and/or carcinogenicity associated with other TCM herbs. Thus, we conclude that a long history of usage is insufficient to assure the safety of herbal remedies.

Source:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.15252/embr.201642375
 
  • lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Changing in to before would not be an improvement, but I see your point. It would be better to say “the latency of symptoms”, meaning delay in the appearance of symptoms.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    The key point here is the distinction between symptoms (which includes changes in blood test results, for liver enzymes, for example) and the appearance of visible symptoms that might be noticed by the practitioner or patient using TCM. It is only when some symptoms are visible that one might feel a particular treatment is unsafe, while the invisible symptoms simply had not been detected because blood tests had not been done (or even considered). Hence the use of the phrase "appearance of symptoms" and it is this delay or latency that is referred to. This concept is not uncommon in papers discussing diagnosis delays based on "appearance" rather than "detectability". "Latency in appearance of XYZ" (where XYZ is a condition or symptom) is illustrated in several examples below.

    Additionally, there's also latency in appearance of skin blistering that can delay decontamination and medical care
    Mean Latency in appearance of Tremors (secs) in PIC Model
    Martini A, Notarangeleno LD, Barberis L et al. (1983) Acquired vitamin-D resistance rickets caused by prolonged latency in appearance of bone tumour. Am J Dis Child 137:1025–1026
     
    Last edited:

    NewAmerica

    Banned
    Mandarin
    Good point.:)

    Symptoms detectable by machine and symptoms only detectable by naked eyes should both be considered.

    Thank you.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    Just a point. If it is detected by a machine, it's a sign, not a symptom. Symptoms are detected by the patient. Signs are detected by the clinician. A degree of language misuse seems to have crept into some areas of medicine over the last 50 years.

    As for latency in, it's latency in the appearance. That is, it is an innate characteristic of the way symptoms appear, not a period of time before they appear. It's certainly not a characteristic of the symptoms.

    The point being made is that if the clinician or researcher looks for signs (as in western medicine) the condition will be detected long before there are symptoms.
     
    Last edited:

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    A degree of language misuse seems to have crept into some areas of medicine over the last 50 years.
    Guilty as charged (either as having been influenced by or perpetutaing the change) and your comment makes the phrase I have seen many times "signs and symptoms" less redundant than I used to think :)

    it's latency in the appearance
    :thumbsup:

    The WRF dictionary, without specializing in medical terminology, has a broader/vaguer definition that may have contributed to the/my change/error:)

    1. Pathology a phenomenon that arises from and accompanies a particular disease or disorder and serves as an indication of it.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Latency is one of the characteristics of the process of the presentation of symptoms. A delay that is an inherent step in the process can't occur before the process.
     
    Last edited:

    NewAmerica

    Banned
    Mandarin
    Just a point. If it is detected by a machine, it's a sign, not a symptom. Symptoms are detected by the patient. Signs are detected by the clinician. A degree of language misuse seems to have crept into some areas of medicine over the last 50 years.

    As for latency in, it's latency in the appearance. That is, it is an innate characteristic of the way symptoms appear, not a period of time before they appear. It's certainly not a characteristic of the symptoms.

    The point being made is that if the clinician or researcher looks for signs (as in western medicine) the condition will be detected long before there are symptoms.
    Informative. Thank you Andygc.

    As for latency in, it's latency in the appearance. That is, it is an innate characteristic of the way symptoms appear, not a period of time before they appear. It's certainly not a characteristic of the symptoms.
    This part is hard to understand.

    WRF helps here:
    1. (of a disease, or something causing a disease) remaining in an inactive or hidden phase;
      dormant.
    la•ten•cy, n.
    So if it is written as "Dormancy in the appearance of symptoms," it is a bit easier to grasp.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    So if it is written as "Dormancy in the appearance of symptoms," it is a bit easier to grasp.
    But that is not the term used in this context, although it may help you to grasp what is intended. The term latent (and dormant) is also used for viruses etc but that is a different concept. The viruses are "asleep"/inactive not reproducing until something triggers them to start multiplying - then they wake up. In that concept, dormant is a good description. In the case of the OP, however, the condition (liver disaese, for example) is progressing and only when the progress reaches a certain stage after a certain time do the "symptoms appear" - this delay (between starting treatment and appearance of symptoms) is latency, not dormancy.
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    They are synonyms, in certain contexts, in that to be latent is to lie dormant. But latency is the medical term, not dormancy.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Okay.:)
    But WRF is to blame too, because it gives "dormant" as the synonym of latent.
    You should know by now that synonym does not mean "exactly identical meaning" let alone in all contexts:) (And it's Random House you should cite). In some contexts latent means hidden, in some it means dormant.
     

    LVRBC

    Senior Member
    English-US, standard and medical
    The use of "latency in the appearance of symptoms" is correct. The point being made is that it may take a long time before symptoms (and signs) appear after the use of TCM herbs which may cause renal disease or be carcinogenic. Therefore practitioners may fail to make the connection. Even though these herbs may have a long history of use, that is not sufficient evidence to conclude that they are safe. Hope this paraphrase helps, NewAmerica.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top