like there is/was no tomorrow

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JarekSteliga

Member
Polish
I recently heard this expression used in Sex in the City. The original line was: "KISS me like there is no tomorrow" (except that - in line with the general character of this film - it begun with a different four letter word). It set me wondering how to translate it into Polish.

Here is another example found in BNC:
"And she was puffing away at those wretched cigarettes like there was no tomorrow."

Kopciła te paskudne papierochy jak szalona / nie bacząc na nic ?
 
  • kknd

    Senior Member
    polski / Polish
    I recently heard this expression used in Sex in the City. The original line was: "KISS me like there is no tomorrow" (except that - in line with the general character of this film - it begun with a different four letter word). It set me wondering how to translate it into Polish.

    Here is another example found in BNC:
    "And she was puffing away at those wretched cigarettes like there was no tomorrow."

    Kopciła te paskudne papierochy jak szalona / nie bacząc na nic ?
    i'm not sure if i hadn't heard/seen translation jakby nie było jutra before… it may be a calque though… i guess that your approach is most correct.
     

    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Did you really find yourself at a loss to come up with the Polish translation? Jakby jutra miało nie być is a well-established Polish expression (there are a few pieces of music that are entitled this way) :)
     

    LilianaB

    Banned
    Lithuanian
    Jakby nie było jutra sounds great. Bo jutra jutra już nie będzie - Les Miserables. No, I am sorry it is Bertchold Brecht and Kurt Weil - The Threepenny Opera, but both works have this expression, however, translated in a similar way to: jakby nie było jutra.
     
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    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    "Jakby nie było jutra" sounds nowhere near as great "Jakby jutra miało nie być" and is not nearly as idiomatic (and common, judging by Google results). I like the latter more.
     

    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    I would never use "Jakby jutra miało nie być", nor would my wife. I see eye to eye with kknd that it is a calque and will stick to my gun unless I come across a quote in some literary work. The fact that it has been used in a Polish lyrics or two of late does not convince me in the least. What is more, English calques irritate me and I subscribe fully to public outrage against imports like "dezajning" or "dezajner" or "deweloper" or "menedżer" or "recajkling" or "sorki" or ....


    I believe another accurate translation of "as if there is/was no tomorrow" could be "bez opamiętania". As I understand "bez opamiętania" suggests that we do things little caring about the implications which "tomorrow" could bring about.
     

    dn88

    Senior Member
    Polish
    "Jakby nie było jutra" sounds OK to me. I would say "Jakby jutra miało nie być" has a slightly poetic feel to it, so to speak.
     

    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    I have no inhibitions about saying "Jakby jutra miało nie być", nor would I have any reservations about translating the phrase in question this way, in the context given. It sounds perfectly natural to my native Polish ears.

    What makes you think it's a loan translation from English? How do you know which of the two was used first? (I can assure you, there's no knowing :D) Why the certainty it's a calque? There are a lot of expressions that sound the same in many languages, without them being calques....

    By the way, "bez opamiętania" translates as "With gay/wild abandon" (that is not to say it does not fit in the sentence in question)
     

    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    I have no inhibitions about saying "Jakby jutra miało nie być", nor would I have any reservations about translating the phrase in question this way, in the context given. It sounds perfectly natural to my native Polish ears.

    What makes you think it's a loan translation from English? How do you know which of the two was used first? (I can assure you, there's no knowing :D) Why the certainty it's a calque? There are a lot of expressions that sound the same in many languages, without them being calques....

    By the way, "bez opamiętania" translates as "With gay/wild abandon" (that is not to say it does not fit in the sentence in question)

    It is one thing not having inhibitions about saying something and another accepting this thing as a coined expression. Where I live (Western Poland) people I asked don't recognize "jakby jutra miało nie być" as something in common circulation. Would you care to offer some proof in the form of a quote from literature or perhaps from Polish National Corpus (if any such thing exists)? Meanwhile, intrigued as I am by this, I will continue to conduct my private poll among friends and acquintances.
     

    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Would you care to offer some proof in the form of a quote from literature or perhaps from Polish National Corpus (if any such thing exists)? Meanwhile, intrigued as I am by this, I will continue to conduct my private poll among friends and acquintances.
    By the same token, would you care to provide us with something attesting to the truth of your statement, that "Jakby jutra miało nie być" is a loan translation (or a calque, call it what you want)? You can't possibly think that every single expression in Polish language has been used in a literature...:confused:
     
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    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    By the same token, would you care to provide us with something attesting to the truth of your statement, that "Jakby jutra miało nie być" is a loan translation (or a calque, call it what you want)? You can't possibly think that every single expression in Polish language has been used in a literature...:confused:
    This is getting more and more intriguing for me. I wonder what your description/definition of a collocation is. How in your opinion is a distinction made between a coined expression and one made on the spur of the moment?
    I checked in the "Słownik frazeologiczny języka polskiego" and keep asking around and my conclusion is that "jakby jutra nie miało być" is not a coined Polish expression.
     

    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Jarek, you're confusing terms here. Collocation and coined expression are two different things - reading your last post, one can get the impression that they are one and the same - well, they're not (look up the difference). You don't appear to be familiar with the definiton of "calque", too, at least judging by the point you made earlier on.
    JarekSteliga said:
    hat is more, English calques irritate me and I subscribe fully to public outrage against imports like "dezajning" or "dezajner" or "deweloper" or "menedżer" or "recajkling" or "sorki" or ....
    These are makaronizmy, not loan translations.

    Anyway, I'm inclined to agree that "Jakby jutra miało nie być" is not a fixed expression, and I might have got carried away saying that it should be regarded as such. That said, it's perfectly fine to me (and to most people who contributed to this thread, I think)
     

    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    Jarek, you're confusing terms here. Collocation and coined expression are two different things - reading your last post, one can get the impression that they are one and the same - well, they're not (look up the difference). You don't appear to be familiar with the definiton of "calque", too, at least judging by the point you made earlier on.

    These are makaronizmy, not loan translations.

    All these remarks may well be true, since I lack solid, systematic education. Please forgive me.


    Anyway, I'm inclined to agree that "Jakby jutra miało nie być" is not a fixed expression, and I might have got carried away saying that it should be regarded as such.

    This statement comes as a relief, since in the course of my short participation in this forum I found your comments very timely and the fundamental difference of opinion like the one we had had, made me uneasy.

    That said, it's perfectly fine to me (and to most people who contributed to this thread, I think)
    By the way, has the subject of English language imports/loans (makaronizmów), calques etc as a growing phenomenon been discussed in this forum?
     

    dreamlike

    Senior Member
    Polish
    There's nothing to forgive, Jarek, to err is human, everyone makes mistakes (I can go on and on...). It's good you stand corrected, rather than taking offence or trying to prove me otherwise (which could prove difficult :D). Your grasp of English is exceptional for one lacking "solid, systematic education" :)

    I don't know whether the phenomenon of language imports and calques has already been discussed, but I'm sure it's frowned upon by the vast majority of the Polish contributors.
     

    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    I don't know whether the phenomenon of language imports and calques has already been discussed /.../ QUOTE]

    In that case I will contemplate posting a new thread dedicated to this topic if only to make sure that the unnerving habit of substituting Polish words/phrases with their English counterparts is indeed looked down upon by the vast majority of the Polish contributors.
     

    BezierCurve

    Senior Member
    ... może jeszcze: "jakby świat miał się [zaraz] skończyć".

    Swoją drogą, prawie we wszystkim moglibyśmy dopatrzeć się małpowania, również w "jak szalona" ('like crazy").
     

    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    ... może jeszcze: "jakby świat miał się [zaraz] skończyć".

    Swoją drogą, prawie we wszystkim moglibyśmy dopatrzeć się małpowania, również w "jak szalona" ('like crazy").
    No, myślę, że jednak łatwo odróżnić jawne zapożyczenia. Ostatnio usłyszałem w III pr. Polskiego Radia słowo "lineup" i myślałem, że mnie coś trafi.

    "jakby świat miał się [zaraz] skończyć". Jako tłumaczenie angielskiego wyrażenia verbatim, zapewne pasuje, ale również nie jest to chyba utarte polskie wyrażenie.
     

    LilianaB

    Banned
    Lithuanian
    Another option: Jakby kończył się świat. Jakby jutro miał skończyć się świat. I'm sorry. I somehow missed Bezier's post. I think this is a good suggestion. In fact, I think it is a forgotten Polish expression, not one that has not been fully adopted into the language yet.
     
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    JarekSteliga

    Member
    Polish
    Another option: Jakby kończył się świat. Jakby jutro miał skończyć się świat. I'm sorry. I somehow missed Bezier's post. I think this is a good suggestion. In fact, I think it is a forgotten Polish expression, not one that has not been fully adopted into the language yet.
    Próbowałem znaleźć oba wyrażenia tutaj http://nkjp.pl/poliqarp/query/. Bez skutku. Nie wiem na ile można na tej bazie danych polegać.
     

    BezierCurve

    Senior Member
    "jakby świat miał się [zaraz] skończyć". Jako tłumaczenie angielskiego wyrażenia verbatim, zapewne pasuje, ale również nie jest to chyba utarte polskie wyrażenie."
    Też tak mi się wydaje, chociaż samo wyrażenie miało okazję spopularyzować się (np. na przełomie lat siedemdziesiątych i osiemdziesiątych w piosence Anny Jantar). Był to jednak mój numer jeden kiedy miałem 5 lat, więc mogę mieć trochę spaczony punkt widzenia.
     
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