mówić (Can it mean "to say"?)

  • Brian P

    Senior Member
    I checked my Angielsko-Polski Słownik and verified that mówić and the perfective form powiedieć are like the Russian говорить/сказать in that they can mean both "to say" and "to speak". However in Bulgarian they are different: говоря "I speak" and "казвам" "I say" (Bulgarian has no infinitives) Are the words different in Czech?

     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    OK, I am retracting everything. :) We cannot "speak a word" and I thought Polish was similar. Thanks!

    Jana
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Apart from what others said I'd use both. :)

    I'd only use a different construction:
    Po angielsku mówi się (raczej)...
    or
    Po angielsku powiedział(a)byś...

    Anyway, I find the later one more friendly and nicer to my ears.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I would say: musisz powiedzieć
    powiedzieć - say
    mówić - speak, talk
    They are a little bit tricky;
    Speak to me.
    Powiedz coś do mnie.

    He told me to go out.
    Powiedział mi żebym wyszedł.

    Do you speak Polish?
    (Czy) mówisz po polsku?

    I talked to him for five minutes and he didn't say a word.
    Mówiłem do niego przez pięć minut a on nie wypowiedział ani słowa.

    I talked with him for all day long about what he'd done.
    Rozmawiałem z nim cały dzień o tym co zrobił.

    IMO context is the key here by which you can pick a pertinent translation. ;)
     

    Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    Thank you Brian for correcting my mistake.Please always do!:)In return of this may I correct your Polish?
    Mały błąd (rodzaj męski)
    Życzę ci powodzenia! or Życzę powodzenia! or simply Powodzenia!
    "musisz mówić" it is a long story..
    I don't agree with Thomas that is only the matter of context.It is problem of polish grammar.I will try to explain clearly.:eek:
    Mówić and powiedzieć are 2 infinitive forms of one verb (both mean to say,to tell or to speak ,depends on the context)
    Most polish verbs have 2 forms of infinitive: forma niedokonana (mówić) imperfective aspect,incompleted or repeated action and forma dokonana (powiedzieć) perfective aspect,completed action.Usually they are quite similar.For exemple:
    robić - zrobić (both mean to do or to make)
    pisać - napisać (to write)
    jeść - zjeść (to eat)
    Sometimes the ending differ:
    dawać - dać (to give)
    wygrywać - wygrać (to win)
    So you can say "musisz mówić głośniej" (because I can't hear you) -repeated action) but "musisz powiedzieć coś"(something :word or sentence - it is competed action)
    In your post it would be better "powinnaś powiedzieć"(you should say) or "Ja bym powiedział"(I would say)
    Pozdrowienia.
     

    werrr

    Senior Member
    ...
    It is problem of polish grammar.I will try to explain clearly.:eek:
    Mówić and powiedzieć are 2 infinitive forms of one verb (both mean to say,to tell or to speak ,depends on the context)
    Most polish verbs have 2 forms of infinitive: forma niedokonana (mówić) imperfective aspect,incompleted or repeated action and forma dokonana (powiedzieć) perfective aspect,completed action.Usually they are quite similar.
    ...
    Interesting, but Jana who pointed this problem out is familiar with aspects!!! I don't think it's matter of Polish grammar, rather matter of semantics. Heretofore I translated both "říci" and "říkat" as "powiedzieć". But now I see it was'nt absolutely correct. My dictionary says:

    říkat = mówić
    říci = powiedzieć

    So, it really seems to work as aspectual pair. But I don't think it's real aspectual pair since it is'nt cognate.
    In Czech we have (imperfective/perfective form):

    říkat / říci ~ say
    mluvit / promluvit (or domluvit, mluvívat...) ~ speak
    povídat / povědět ~ talk

    Only the first pair works together with "slovo" (=word).
     

    Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    Hello again,
    I suppose it is especially complicated topic because of a great number of close meaning words.Also in English:say,speak,tell,talk -it is not easy to foreign student!We have even more verbs which are similar and difficult to catch their nuances:mówić/powiedzieć,rozmawiać/porozmawiać,wypowiadać się/wypowiedzieć się,rzec(the old one)gadać(familiar),pogadać.
    I see from your post that it is the same thing in Czech language.
    Pozdrowienia.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I agree with what Werr wrote.

    Marga H said:
    I don't agree with Thomas that is only the matter of context.It is problem of polish grammar.I will try to explain clearly.
    I did not say that this is only the matter of context and I don’t think that Polish grammar is a problem either. I said that the context is the key thing here which doesn’t mean it’s the only thing here. As a matter of fact, I would say that the grammatical issue of perfectiveness/ imperfectiveness and the semantical one— the context are strongly intertwined. If you change the context you change the aspect on a number of occasions as well.


    Marga H said:
    Sometimes the ending differ:
    dawać - dać (to give)
    wygrywać - wygrać (to win)
    It’s not the posfix it’s the infix that makes the verb imperfective. ;)

    werr said:
    říkat = mówić
    říci = powiedzieć

    So, it really seems to work as aspectual pair. But I don't think it's real aspectual pair since it is'nt cognate.
    I don't quite know how they work in terms of reality but according to the criteria I can make out from your comment wymówić would be the real perfective counterpart of mówić. :)
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    A few more tiny mistakes, Marga. I know that articles are difficult for native speakers of most Slavic tongues because you don't have them in your languages.

    If you ever need help send me a PM

    Brian

    Hello again,
    I suppose it is an especially complicated topic because of a the great number of close meaning words.Also in English:say,speak,tell,talk -it is not easy to for a foreign student! (or you could say, "for foreign students") We have even more verbs which are similar and and whose nuances are difficult to catch their nuances:mówić/powiedzieć,rozmawiać/porozmawiać,wypowiadać się/wypowiedzieć się,rzec(the old one)gadać(familiar),pogadać.
    I see from your post that it is the same thing in Czech language.
    Pozdrowienia.
     
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