Macedonian: Whose

cr00mz

Senior Member
Swedish
I have a question about the possesive pronouns.

I am sort of familiar with чиј and it different variants. However, I seldom use them myselves and vary rarely do people around me use them aswell.

I have however heard of на кого, which seem to have a similar function. A sentence I very recently heard was "на кого е колата?", with the meaning of "whose car is this?", and not "to whom is the car?", which I assume is the correct meaning of the sentence.

Help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
  • pastet89

    Senior Member
    bulgarian
    Well, my native language is Bulgarian which is almost the same, and in our language the written sentence is 100% the same, so yes, it means "whose". In Bulgarian we actually have as well "чий", as in Serbian, but it is a little bit archaic and we use "на кого / на кой". As Macedonian also do not have cases as Bulgarian it is the same there, so you are right in your assumption.
     

    cr00mz

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    Thank you for your reply pastet89.

    I have another question. The word whose, or pronoun, has mutiple meanings in english. I do not know the correct grammar terminology. But i can demonstrate through this sentence.

    I ate a banan, whose peel was yellow. Can also be said as, I ate a banana. It had a yellow peel.

    How would you write this sentence? Would на кого be incorporated in this sentence, or is there perhaps a different word used here?

    Thanks in advance.
     

    Късметлийски

    Banned
    български
    На български би било: "Ядох банан, чиято кора бе жълта". Другата Ваша алтернатива "Ядох банан, той имаше жълта кора" не звучи много добре, но би била разбрана.
     

    Късметлийски

    Banned
    български
    So a variant with на кого, is not possible for this type of sentence?
    Може и така: "Ядох банан, кората на който бе жълта". Това също не ми харесва особено. Кого(то) може да се употребява само за лица, не за животни и предмети.
     

    pastet89

    Senior Member
    bulgarian
    Кого(то) може да се употребява само за лица, не за животни и предмети.
    +1
    For subjects you should use който.
    The sentence actually sounds good with "чиято кора бе жълта", but the most common usage would be "Ядох банан с жълта кора", despite the fact it is not a literal translation.
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    Input from a Macedonian native speaker:

    1. I am aware that "чиј" and its variants are used rarely, but I myself use them all the time, and find nothing wrong with them. Then again, bear in mind that I am prone to expressing myself pompously all the time, in all sorts of informal situations.
    2. I am aware that "на кого" is often used as a substitute for "чиј", but to me it sounds awkward and even incorrect, to an extent, though it isn't really, so I would personally advise against it. I would scarcely say "на кого е колата?", and would much prefer "чија е колата?".
    3. About the multiple meanings of the pronoun "whose", I presume that you were referring to its dual role as an interrogative (Whose car is this?) and a relative pronoun (I ate a banana, whose peel was yellow). These two are distinct in Macedonian, just as in Bulgarian. The former is rendered as "чиј", and the latter as "чијшто" (изедов банана, чијашто кора беше жолта). The former can replace the latter, i.e. the interrogative form can be used as a relative pronoun, just like "којшто" can be substituted with a simple "кој", but the opposite does not hold true. Either way, I would advise you to always stick to "чијшто" when employing a relative pronoun.
    4. As for the variant with "на кого" in the case of the banana, you can't use "кого", due to its animate meaning, as Късметлийски has pointed out, but you could say "изедов банана, на којашта кората ѝ беше жолта" (note the presence of the dative short pronoun which is absent in Bulgarian). However, this sounds disagreeable, whereas the expressing the meaning with "чијашто" would be much smoother, as far as I'm concerned. Anyhow, the best option would most certainly be "изедов банана со жолта кора", as pastet89 has suggested. The use of the relative possessive pronoun in such a banal sentence about bananas, whose peels are automatically expected to be yellow anyway, sounds more stilted in Macedonian than in English.
     

    cooldewd

    New Member
    English/Macedonian (OCS)
    In my native Kosturski dialect, we would always say "chiye".

    I have also heard people from Lerinsko say "Na koy" instead of "chiye".

    In my head, I can hear my parents saying "Chiye".
     

    cr00mz

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    Thank you for your post 123xyz, and yes I also agree that the sentence feels quite awkward. I am not an english expert, but the Swedish version (from which I translated) is most definitely possible. It does however sound a bit unnatural, specially in everyday conversation, not just the sentence but the very word itself.
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    DarkChild, I wasn't suggesting that "ѝ" is absent in Bulgarian completely. I was suggesting that it's not to be used in the sentence in question, i.e. that reduplication of pronouns doesn't occur in Bulgarian relative clauses, or possibly anywhere. I don't actually know anything about reduplication in Bulgarian - I was simply referring to the sentences you had written.

    Ядох банан, кората на който бе жълта
    Изедов банана, на којашто кората ѝ беше жолта

    As you can see, the Macedonian translation has the added, obligatory element of "ѝ".
     

    DarkChild

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian
    DarkChild, I wasn't suggesting that "ѝ" is absent in Bulgarian completely. I was suggesting that it's not to be used in the sentence in question, i.e. that reduplication of pronouns doesn't occur in Bulgarian relative clauses, or possibly anywhere. I don't actually know anything about reduplication in Bulgarian - I was simply referring to the sentences you had written.

    Ядох банан, кората на който бе жълта
    Изедов банана, на којашто кората ѝ беше жолта

    As you can see, the Macedonian translation has the added, obligatory element of "ѝ".

    Oh, I see. They way you had written it made it seem like it was absent completely :D

    In Bulgarian it's also possible to say it that way but using a different word order (as it is in Macedonian)
    Изядох банан, на който кората му беше жълта (банан is masculine) but му is certainly not obligatory.
     
    Top