make something more fun?

Moviefans

Senior Member
Chinese
Hi,
I have read such a sentence, which I regard as imbalanced.

The use of these high-tech facilities will make learning English more convenient, more fun and more accessible.

According to Oxford Dictionary, usually "fun" cannot be an adjective, unless it is followed by a noun, such as " a fun night, a fun person."

So I think "fun" cannot be used this way. What do you think?
 
  • papillon

    Senior Member
    Russian (Ukraine)
    The sentence is perfectly fine.

    From the WR dictionary (English definitions):

    4.
    B
    adjective
    1 amusing, amusive, diverting, fun(a)

    providing enjoyment; pleasantly entertaining; "an amusing speaker"; "a diverting story"; "a fun thing to do"

    FranParis: fun and funny are not the same thing. Funny makes you laugh, fun is just enjoyable andd/or entertaining.
     

    Moviefans

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    But as I said before in the first post, Oxford Dictionary says, if "fun" is used as an adjective, it should be followed by a noun. such as "a fun person, a fun night", but not "make the night fun", sth like that.

    Anyone else would tell me your impression of this usage of "fun" in the above sentence? Correctly used or not?
     

    papillon

    Senior Member
    Russian (Ukraine)
    I agree with FranParis. I think it should read funnier. That's the comparative of funny. Fun can be used as an adjective, but only attributively, as is suggested in the dictionaries in which I looked fun up.
    I think this is exactly where the problem is: even though funny appears to be the adjective couterpart of the noun fun, in modern usage the two have very different connotation.

    A joke can be funny. A comedian can be funny. A situation can be funny. Funny generally means humorous. Something funny will make you laugh.

    I am guessing that the divergence between the meanings of fun and funny meant people had to find another adjective of fun. Fun became an adjective. The word funny simply wasn't conveying the same meaning.

    This guy is funny doesn't mean the same as this guy is fun.
    In the first case you find a person humorous, he may say or do something that makes you laugh. In the second, the guy makes spending time with him a pleasure, fun.
     
    Papillon, I agree.

    I agree with FranParis. I think it should read funnier. That's the comparative of funny. Fun can be used as an adjective, but only attributively, as is suggested in the dictionaries in which I looked fun up.
    It should not be funnier.

    There's a difference between fun and funny.

    Funny is something you laugh at, whilst something fun is something you enjoy doing.

    S/he's using fun, not funny. The "er" version of "fun" is "funner" and really bad English. You always say more fun. You never say "funner" which is what you'd have to do without changing the meaning of the sentence. Plus all the "mores" give the sentence a structure. Something that is more fun is more enjoyable. It's a perfectly fine sentence.

    "more fun" is describing learning if you want to know what it modifies. You can make something better, thus making it more fun.
     

    rsweet

    Senior Member
    English, North America
    But as I said before in the first post, Oxford Dictionary says, if "fun" is used as an adjective, it should be followed by a noun. such as "a fun person, a fun night", but not "make the night fun", sth like that.

    Anyone else would tell me your impression of this usage of "fun" in the above sentence? Correctly used or not?
    You wouldn't usually say, "night fun." Nonetheless, it's very common to use "fun" as a predicate adjective after "to be." That was fun. Last night was fun. You're no fun. He's a lot of fun.
     

    Porteño

    Member Emeritus
    British English
    This is how the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary defines it:

    fun (PLEASURE)
    noun
    pleasure, enjoyment, amusement:
    Have fun (= Enjoy yourself)!
    Having fun (= Are you enjoying yourself)?
     

    jinti

    Senior Member
    The sentence looks fine to me. We make things fun for kids all the time. For example, teachers try to think of ways to make lessons fun. Of course, it's harder for adults -- there's just no way to make taxes more fun than playing video games. Etc., etc. It's pretty common usage, but definitely informal.

    And no, we can't substitute funnier.

    Here's my attempt at explaining why more fun works but funnier doesn't :):



    From the Columbia Guide to Standard English:
    Fun is clearly a noun: We had a lot of fun. It also clearly occurs after linking verbs where we expect either a predicate nominative or predicate adjective: This is fun. It is often hard to demonstrate which of those structures it is, but either way it is Standard.​
    Fun is now also an attributive adjective, but so far only in Casual and some Informal use: This was a fun evening. Everybody thought it was a fun play. That use is growing, however, despite a good deal of critical objection to it. Note too that in adjectival use fun differs semantically from funny.
    And from the American Heritage Dictionary:
    Usage Note: The use of fun as an attributive adjective, as in a fun time, a fun place, probably originated in a playful reanalysis of the use of the word in sentences such as It is fun to ski, where fun has the syntactic function of adjectives such as amusing or enjoyable. The usage became popular in the 1950s and 1960s ... but it can still raise eyebrows among traditionalists.​
    So my guess is that in the original sentence, we've got two adjectives (which take more rather than -er because they have 3+ syllables) and one <cough>, which takes more because regardless of what syntactic function it's playing, it's still at heart a noun and that's what it acts like.
     

    Edwin

    Senior Member
    USA / Native Language: English
    Another vote for the proposition:

    funnier is not the same as more fun
    Just as Papillon says:

    This guy is funny doesn't mean the same as this guy is fun.

    Make learning English funnier doesn't mean the same thing as Make learning English more fun .
     

    Moviefans

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    HI,
    You are discussing over sth I don't pay attention to.
    I'm not curious at the difference between fun and funny. I'm also not interested in the fact that "fun" can be a noun or an adejective.

    My question is that, some of you said: 1) This is fun. But according to Oxford Dictionary, the word "fun" in sentence No.1 can only be a noun.

    The same is with: 2) There is a lot of fun. "Fun" is a noun here.
    While 3) There are a lot of fun things. "Fun" is an adjective.
    Because Oxford says that if "fun" is used as an adjective, it is followed by a noun, here "things" in sentence No 3.

    So my question is , when we say "make sth/sb more ....", this blank should be an adjective, right? For example, make her more beautiful, healthier. But if "more fun" is used here as an adjective, that's a violation of rules elaborated by Oxford Dictionary.

    To me, "make ... more fun" should better be changed into "make ... full of fun.", and maybe the order of the three parallel parts should be changed, "full of fun" should be placed at the last of the three parts. Don't you notice this?

    Therefor, the latter part should be changed into "make learning English more convenient, more accessible, and full of fun", in my mind.
     

    Moviefans

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    You wouldn't usually say, "night fun." Nonetheless, it's very common to use "fun" as a predicate adjective after "to be." That was fun. Last night was fun. You're no fun. He's a lot of fun.
    I think your examples of "fun" are all "fun"s used as nouns. (That was fun. Last night was fun. He's a lot of fun.)
    Among your examples, "You're no fun" is an especially clear example. If "fun" is an adjective, people would say" You're not fun" instead of "You're no fun".

    Similarly, we would say "He is no fool". Here "no fool" means "not a fool/ not foolish".
     

    rsweet

    Senior Member
    English, North America
    You're right. The last two examples use "fun" as the object of a preposition, which would make it a noun. Nonetheless, "fun" is often used as an adjective after "to be."

    "This class is fun." (In this example "fun" is used exactly the same way as "This class is full." "This class is hard." "This class is easy." "This class is noisy.")

    Therefor, the latter part should be changed into "make learning English more convenient, more accessible, and full of fun", in my mind.
    If you change the sentence to "full of fun," it is no longer parallel (and sounds really awkward). Because all the other words are adjectives, you need to keep "fun," which is an adjective here.
     

    Edwin

    Senior Member
    USA / Native Language: English
    Hi,

    According to Oxford Dictionary, usually "fun" cannot be an adjective, unless it is followed by a noun, such as " a fun night, a fun person."

    So I think "fun" cannot be used this way. What do you think?
    I think the Oxford Dictionary is wrong about this (Assuming that you have quoted it precisely). The expressions "is more fun" and "are more fun" are commonly used. Googling I find many such examples and they all seem very natural to me. How old is the Oxford Dictionary you have?

    Here are over 1 million uses found by Googling
    . This, of course, doesn't prove anything. But I believe that you will find the expressions quite natural for native English speakers.
     

    former_chomsky_advocate

    Member
    English, USA (Great Lakes)
    This discussion arose in the 50s and 60s where the same argumentations were made, raised, refuted and/or accepted. As our friend above said, there is a plethora of usage of English "fun" both as a noun and as an adjective. Unless your audience suffers from not only excessive pedantry but also a complete isolation from natural language, your sentence above is perfectly correct.
     

    Kelly B

    Senior Member
    USA English
    The on-line version of the Compact Oxford English Dictionary has this entry:

    fun
    • noun 1 light-hearted pleasure or amusement. 2 a source of this. 3 playfulness or good humour.
    • adjective informal enjoyable.

    This version doesn't include usage information, unfortunately, but it is consistent with our experience of its use.
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    Fun has moved from noun through being used attributively to being accepted in adjectival use - meaning amusing, entertaining, enjoyable.

    The earliest evidence noted in the OED is:
    1908 Daily Chron. 26 Dec. 4/4 The side~show is blossoming out again at all points of the compass in ‘fun towns’ and the like.

    The use of fun in the original post #1 sentence is completely natural. My personal preference would be to put fun at the end because there is a mild dissonance between two rather stuffy words, convenient and accessible, and one very human, fun.
     

    whoisal

    Member
    English, USA
    I would say "more fun" because the other adjectives are also in this form. "More fun, more convenient, more accessible" has a nicer cadence than "funnier, more convenient, more accessible."
     
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