Mall (pronunciation)

[Keith Bradford]

The pronunciation of "mall" was raised on another forum by KateBF, talking about the "listen to" function on the WRDictionary.

I listened, and I agree with her that the US version is more like "mail" and the UK version sounds like "maul". Two streets in London, the Mall and Pall Mall, have been pronounced /mæl/ to rhyme with gal, Hal and pal for as long as I can remember, at least in my dialect.

I know there is an odd upper-class dialect pronunciation of Pall Mall as "Paul Maul" but I don't think it applies to the everyday "shopping mall". Does it?

(Have you the ability to amend the recorded pronunciations anyway?)

 

[Wordy McWordface]

It does. We do pronounce 'shopping mall' as maul in the UK. My local shopping precinct was renamed The xxxx Mall many years ago and it has always been maul. As far as I know, Pall Mall is the exception: pal mal is normal, while paul maul sounds pretentious.

The UK pronunciations are correct, as is the Southern US one. But the "standard" US sound clip is very obviously wrong: they've put the pronunciation of 'mail' there by mistake.

 

[Keith Bradford]

OK, I've learned something, so far as Southern English is concerned anyway.

I would never call, say, the Mander Centre in Wolverhampton a "mall" in any case -- for me it's a shopping precinct and always will be! (But then, I still miss the Central Arcade, destroyed by fire in 1974.)

 

[Welsh_Sion]

In keeping with the UK pronunciation, one can allude to the following comment:

"When you've seen one shopping precinct, you've seen 'em all".

(Works better aurally, obviously ...)

 

[Wordy McWordface]

"When you've seen one shopping precinct, you've seen 'em all".

... you've seen a mall.

Very clever!

 

[ewie]

We do pronounce 'shopping mall' as maul in the UK. [...]

I pronounce that as mal

 

[Wordy McWordface]

I pronounce that as mal

Yes, that option is mentioned here....

mall - WordReference.com Dictionary of English

... but oddly in the American dictionary bit, not the GB one.

UK:*UK and possibly other pronunciations/ˈmɔːl/
US:/mɔl/ ,(môl; Brit. also mal)

 

[elroy]

Wow, "mal"! I had no idea that was a thing.

But the "standard" US sound clip is very obviously wrong: they've put the pronunciation of 'mail' there by mistake.

 

[Wordy McWordface]

Wow, "mal"! I had no idea that was a thing.

Yes. The Mall and Pall Mall in London, as well as the game 'pall mall' which gave these streets their name, are pronounced "mal".

 

[Keith Bradford]

@WordyMcWordface, I'm confused.

• In #2 you say "We do pronounce 'shopping mall' as maul in the UK."
• In #9 you say "The Mall and Pall Mall in London, as well as the game 'pall mall' which gave these streets their name, are pronounced "mal"."

Not having lived in the UK for 30 years I'm prepared to be guided by you, but in which direction? For the record both I (born in Wolverhampton) and my wife (from Dorset) say mal /mæl/ whether it's preceded by The, Pall or shopping.

 

[ewie]

I (born in Wolverhampton) and my wife (from Dorset) say mal /mæl/ whether it's preceded by The, Pall or shopping.

Ditto

 

[Wordy McWordface]

• In #2 you say "We do pronounce 'shopping mall' as maul in the UK."

'Mall' as a common noun (a large building with shops and restaurants) usually rhymes with 'small' and 'call' in BrE.

For example, this is from the Cambridge dictionary, in line with the WRF dictionary:
uk /mɔːl/
mall

Meanwhile other dictionaries also add the alternative pronunciation that you and Ewie use. For example, this is from Macmillan:
UK /mɔːl/ UK /mæl/
MALL (noun) definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary

• In #9 you say "The Mall and Pall Mall in London, as well as the game 'pall mall' which gave these streets their name, are pronounced "mal"."

Yes, these are place names. And as I said in #2, these are the exceptions, as old place names very often are. The Mall and Pall Mall in central London have been pronounced /mæl/ = mal and /pæl mæl/ - pal mal since the 17th century, I believe.

Not having lived in the UK for 30 years I'm prepared to be guided by you, but in which direction?

For the record both I (born in Wolverhampton) and my wife (from Dorset) say mal /mæl/ whether it's preceded by The, Pall or shopping.

Then carry on saying mal in all cases. Be guided by the Macmillan dictionary, which gives both pronunciations.

 

[Linnets]

Wells and Roach/Jones disagree about the correct pronunciation.

Wells

mɔːl mæl mɒl US mɑːl — Preference poll, BrE, in the sense 'shopping centre', mɔːl 50% (born since 1973: 76%) mæl 50%. Several respondents voted for mɒl, not an option offered. Always mæl in the London place names The Mall, Chiswick Mall, Pall Mall.

Roach/Jones

mɔːl mæl US mɔːl mɑːl — The pronunciation /mɔːl/ for 'mall' meaning 'shopping arcade' appears to have come into British English from American, despite some resistance from those who prefer /mæl/. The 'Oxford English Dictionary' cites a 17th-century verse couplet in which 'mall' rhymes with 'ball'.

 

[Keith Bradford]

Wells and Roach/Jones disagree about the correct pronunciation...

Of course they do! There is no "correct" pronunciation, just a variety of commonly-used pronunciations.

Appropriate quote from Kipling, Britain's favourite poet:
"There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
And every single one of them is right!"

 

[ewie]

Kipling, Britain's favourite poet

 

[Welsh_Sion]

... who wrote exceedingly good verse.

 

[ewie]

 

[merquiades]

As I only pronounce "mall" as "maul", I'm at a loss to decipher the other pronunciations.
How are you pronouncing the London place names? /Mall/. I don't want to sound weird when I go there.
1. Pall Mall as "pas mal" à la française?; 2. Pale male? Light skinned man; 3. Pail mail? A pail for my mail? 4. Pal mal, pal as in my buddy, my chum, my homeboy? With mal rhyming with it?
Thanks for your insight

 

[ewie]

4. Pal mal, pal as in my buddy, my chum, my homeboy? With mal rhyming with it?

 

[ain'ttranslationfun?]

I pronounce mall* as "maul", but the American brand of cigarettes Pall Mall is pronounced "Pell Mell".
*Also call, fall, gall, and tall, but I think these are also pronounced to rhyme with "maul" in BE, too?

 

[Welsh_Sion]

*Also call, fall, gall, and tall, but I think these are also pronounced to rhyme with "maul" in BE, too?
- They all do, and all.

 

[Myridon]

the American brand of cigarettes Pall Mall is pronounced "Pell Mell".

I've fallen through a hole into another universe that differs by just one detail again today. I could swear they were called "paul mauls", but I checked some old commercials on YouTube and they do say pell mell. Why would you sell cigarettes that are "disorderly and confused."

 

[merquiades]

I've fallen through a hole into another universe that differs by just one detail again today. I could swear they were called "paul mauls", but I checked some old commercials on YouTube and they do say pell mell. Why would you sell cigarettes that are "disorderly and confused."

Me too. Paul Mauls. But as I said, for moi "mall" is always "maul."

 

[ain'ttranslationfun?]

I've fallen through a hole into another universe that differs by just one detail again today. I could swear they were called "paul mauls", but I checked some old commercials on YouTube and they do say pell mell. Why would you sell cigarettes that are "disorderly and confused."

They may have been asssuming a faux-British excent?

 

[merquiades]

They may have been asssuming a faux-British excent?

Do you smoke Paul-Mauls or Pêle-Mêles? 😀

 

[ain'ttranslationfun?]

Do you smoke Paul-Mauls or Pêle-Mêles? 😀

Neither.