Man darf keine Sweatshirts in der Schule tragen (Wechselpräposition)

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by Language_Student, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Language_Student Senior Member

    England and English

    Is this correct: 'man darf keine Sweatshirts in der Schule tragen'? It's specifically the 'in' I'm thinking about because I'm looking at a list of school rules which says 'Man darf keinen Alkohol mit in die Schule bringen.'...why is this 'die' and not 'der'?

  2. sokol

    sokol Senior Member

    Vienna, Austria; raised in Upper Austria
    Austrian (as opposed to Australian)
    The sentence grammatically is correct: it is dative ('School' is femininum), therefore "in der". To check replace "Schule" with a neuter (like "Haus"): this would be "... im Haus tragen" - here you see the dative more clearly, many learners get confused by dative femininum.

    The second one - alcohol - is accusative, thus "in die": correct as well.
  3. Language_Student Senior Member

    England and English
    Well I thought it would be 'in der Schule' as it would be dative because there is no movement, but why is it 'in die' with mitbringen? Is this because there is motion involved in bringing something somewhere?? Thank you!
  4. ABBA Stanza Senior Member

    Hessen, DE
    English (UK)
    Yep. You've got it!

    P.S. In + accusative can often be translated as into: You can't wear sweat shirts in the school, and you can't bring alcohol into the school.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  5. Language_Student Senior Member

    England and English
    :) excellent! Thank you very much!!
  6. Sepia Senior Member

    High German/Danish

    Man darf keine Sweatshirts in die Schule tragen

    would mean that you are not allowed to bring a sweat shirt with you onto the premises of the school.

    I don't believe that anyone would really care if somebody was transporting a sweat shirt in his bag. What they mean is he should not wear it on the premises of the school. Hence:

    Man darf keine Sweatshirts in der Schule tragen

    Man darf kein Alkohol, kein Tabak und keine Schusswaffen mit in die Schule bringen.

    That rule should be familiar to you. (OK, you are not American so firearms might not have been on your list ...) The posession of alcohol, tobacco and firearms on school grounds is not tolerated, even if you keep them stashed in your bag or your locker.

    So you notion of AK and DA was almost right - except that the transition and not the movement itself is important.

    Have a closer look at English - you can't mark a noun as AK or DA so you often use a double preposition to express the transition, or you have to express this information otherwise or leave it out. In German we have the AK and the DA for that purpose.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  7. berndf Moderator

    German (Germany)
    Moderator note: The following question has been moved to a new thread:

  8. oberhaenslir Banned

    German, Switzerland
  9. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Hi oberhaenslir,
    are you sure?
    I agree that it is the neutral position:
    Man darf in der Schule keine Sweatshirts tragen.

    But German language allows many movements to emphasize something.

    Man darf keine Sweatshirts in der Schule tragen.
    This emphasizes "keine Sweatshirts" and that it is forbidden.

    We forgot to discuss a semantic aspect:

    Sweatshirts in die Schule tragen/transportieren= to bring/transport some sweatshirts into the school
    Sweatshirts in der Schule tragen/anhaben = To wear a sweatshirt in school.

    (It may also mean to transport - but this is extremely seldom and requires context to explain that you do not mean "to wear".)

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