Members profile: Why was info about profession and gender removed?

[Englishmypassion]

Hello Everyone,
Earlier we used to be able to see WR members' profession in their profile as well as their gender, except if they chose to not disclose their gender. That gave us a good idea about a person's use of the language (someone in the corporate sector is much more likely to touch base with everyone and keep them all in the loop and leverage it to ensure timely production of deliverables...), but I don't know why that info was removed from profiles. Any specific reason?

Can that be restored, at least professions?


Thanks.

 

[mkellogg]

Hey, gender is still there. On yours it clearly says "male" and when I hover over your username in this thread, it shows the male "bathroom" symbol.

Profession/occupation? I am trying to remember if I didn't include it on purpose or not. I may have done it to reduce spam, but it also may have been an oversight. Maybe one of the moderators will remind me. I think it was just an oversight.

 

[Englishmypassion]

Thank you, Mike.

 

[DearPrudence]

Have the symbols gone again; I can't see them anymore?

 

[Peterdg]

Neither do I.

 

[mkellogg]

Have the symbols gone again; I can't see them anymore?

Yes, they had gotten deleted in an upgrade.

OK, I put it back along with two alternatives. Which do you prefer?

1. "Bathroom" icon. My eyes are struggling to make out the difference between m & f.
2. Emoji! 👨 👩 I am not too old to use them!
3. Those symbols that I find confusing. ♂️ ♀️

 

[elroy]

Why not keep all three? That’s what I thought you were going for!

 

[mkellogg]

Why not keep all three? That’s what I thought you were going for!

In the hopes that people understand one of the three?

 

[elroy]

I think it’s just crystal clear that way. Like you, I find #3 confusing.

There’s a saying in German: “Doppelt genäht hält besser” (literally “Twice stitched holds better”). And in this case, we have a triple stitch!

 

[DearPrudence]

Isn't it overkill?
I'm afraid people will actually be confused, wondering why there are 3 different symbols and what is the difference between them.
They might think it is a combination that means something else than "man" or "female".
But maybe it's just me...

 

[lauranazario]

In the hopes that people understand one of the three?

Isn't it overkill?
I'm afraid people will actually be confused, wondering why there are 3 different symbols and what is the difference between them.
They might think it is a combination that means something else than "man" or "female".
But maybe it's just me...

I'm with DearPrudence on this one. Having three icons is definitely overkill.
It's confusing, distracting, unappealing. It's just too much.

I suggest we go with simple, internationally-recognizable icons (what Mike called the 'bathroom' icons).
My two cents.

 

[DearPrudence]

I think the 'bathroom' icons got a few complaints at the time because they were not very visible and distinguishable, and I would tend to agree.
I think the emojis look clear enough.

 

[mkellogg]

Yes, let's just keep one if them.

I think the emojis look clear enough.

I can see the emoji much more clearly, though I am concerned that its meaning won't be clear at all for new users. I can show the words "male" or "female" when the user hovers a mouse, which can help some.

 

[elroy]

What about the words “male” and “female”?

 

[swift]

Emojis with no skin color choice? Wow! 😬

 

[Peterdg]

3. Those symbols that I find confusing. ♂️ ♀️

These are the only ones I prefer. They are, as far as I know, commonly recognized and unambiguous scientific symbols to represent the gender.

What about the words “male” and “female”?

The problem with this is that they are only understandable for people who understand English.

 

[mkellogg]

Emojis with no skin color choice? Wow! 😬

testing 👨🏽‍🦱. If we do go with the emoji, maybe the default blonds wouldn't be the best choice.

 

[elroy]

The problem with this is that they are only understandable for people who understand English.

How is this different from the rest of the website interface? There are several interface languages to choose from, and I assume this could be translated so that it appears in the interface language of the user’s choosing.

They are, as far as I know, commonly recognized and unambiguous scientific symbols to represent the gender.

Two of us in this thread have said that they’re confusing to us. Whenever I see one, I have to look it up to know which gender it is.

 

[mkellogg]

OK, my latest attempt has a "light skin tone" emoji 👨🏻man or 👩🏻woman. If you hover over it, you see ♂ or ♀ and the word Male or Female in the language of your interface. I couldn't get the little "bathroom" icon to show when you hover because it isn't a standard Unicode symbol.

 

[siares]

Whenever I see one, I have to look it up to know which gender it is.

I remember it by thinking of archery, with the male one with arrow from the circle. (The one for female doesn't remind me of anything.)

 

[elroy]

Are most archers male?

 

[siares]

I don't watch sports, I have the association from historic movies where they were.

 

[elroy]

👨🏻man

I don’t like the mustache.

 

[siares]

You've got amazing eyesight!

 

[Peterdg]

Whenever I see one, I have to look it up to know which gender it is.

Are most archers male?

You honestly don't know where these symbols come from?

In the male one, the arrow refers to a certain part of the male anatomy in excited state. Once you remember that one, there is no way these symbols will confuse you anymore.

EDIT: Apparently, according to a biology professor of my wife (who is a zoologist herself), this is not a joke.
EDIT2: I won't tell you where the female symbol supposedly comes from because that is really a "male chauvinst pig" thingy. But then again, it's just a symbol.

 

[swift]

And that old cliche—women are from Venus, men are from Mars.

 

[siares]

EDIT2: I won't tell you where the female symbol supposedly comes from because that is really a "male chauvinst pig" thingy. But then again, it's just a symbol.

Put it in a spoiler. I'll prepare the smelling salts.

 

[velisarius]

I don’t like the mustache.

I don't think it's a moustache. It looks to me like a big mouth. The corresponding female icon has a bare trace of a mouth.

Another attempt from the patriarchy to gag women.

 

[elroy]

It’s definitely a mustache on my Apple devices.

 

[velisarius]

Thanks, elroy. I don't have an Apple.

 

[DearPrudence]

In the male one, the arrow refers to a certain part of the male anatomy in excited state. Once you remember that one, there is no way these symbols will confuse you anymore.

Oh, that was my way of remembering it as well but I didn't know it was the real reason.
(as for the female symbol, I remember it because women are oppressed and put down, hence the sympbol pointing down)

I don't think it's a moustache. It looks to me like a big mouth.

I thought so as well. On a phone, it is clearer that it is a moustache.
On my computer, I have to zoom as hell to perceive a slight moustache

 

[mkellogg]

I am looking at the various options and even the blond one that we had till yesterday 👨 had a mustache, a blond, imperceptible mustache, but it is there.

Looking a little more, I have found the "boy" emoji 👦🏻. No mustache. Here is the girl 👧🏻. We are mostly adults here, but I kind of like the boy for "male", and maybe stick with the woman symbol 👩🏻 for female.

 

[Roxxxannne]

And that old cliche—women are from Venus, men are from Mars.

I've heard that these come from the astrological signs which themselves come from the idea of original stuff associated with Venus/Aphrodite and Mars/Ares: Venus was the goddess of beauty, and her symbol is a hand mirror (yes, they had those i antiquity) and Ares was a berserk warrior (unlike the tactician Athena), hence shield and spear.
Admittedly, it's easier to think of the male symbol as an erection.

 

[Hermione Golightly]

Another attempt from the patriarchy to gag women.

Doomed to failure so that's OK.

It's an astonishingly simple approach leaving no option for those who would like to state 'other'.
Thanks for all the hard work, Mike.

 

[Reina de la Aldea]

Emojis with no skin color choice? Wow! 😬

Wow is right! Welcome to the 19th C

I just had a brainstorm. Rather than inviting people to choose from among male, female, and no selection, have people specify (if they choose to) their pronouns. This is more and more in vogue. My husband, who's in academics, says that often people attending a meeting with strangers begin by specifying their pronouns. This would have to be a write-in field since there's no end to the pronouns people can choose (or will choose in the future).

So instead of the international bathroom symbols and/or white female or male faces, l suggest pronouns. Let's move with the times!

 

[swift]

have people specify (if they choose to) their pronouns

👏🏻

 

[Loob]

I'm a bit confused by this thread. Are we talking about changing the current words ("male"/"female") that appear - unless left blank - in the "About" page of the Profile?

 

[swift]

Yes.

 

[Loob]

Thank you, Don Swifty. I was confused by all the references to hovering and symbols/emojis.

 

[Reina de la Aldea]

I'm a bit confused by this thread. Are we talking about changing the current words ("male"/"female") that appear - unless left blank - in the "About" page of the Profile?

Yes, specifically in the account details of your member profile

 

[DearPrudence]

To be honest, I had forgotten the info was there as well; you have to click once on the name, then a second time, and then click on "About" to read "Male/Female/-".
Conversely, the symbols are immediately visible when you hover a user's name.

 

[Loob]

To be honest, I'd forgotten about seeing symbols when you hover over a name

(I still can't see them, but I'm not sure whether I should or not...)

 

[DearPrudence]

At the moment, you can see them. But don't try with my profile, because I haven't filled that field in

 

[Loob]

Ah right, just found the symbols by hovering over Mike ... and Loob!

Thanks for clarifying, DP

 

[Reina de la Aldea]

Conversely, the symbols are immediately visible when you hover a user's name.

Yes, they're a nuisance. I communicated with a very experienced and conscientious moderator to try to find a way of purging that female white face emoji from my profile -- to no avail

Prudence, what do you think of my suggestion to provide our members with the option to specify their pronouns. That way, they may (optionally) be referred to using them. Of course this may highlight just how inflexible some languages are with respect to gendered nouns, e.g., suppose you learn that a new member uses the pronoun ze. What are your options for welcoming zir to the forum? -- bienvenid al foro

I don't think it would be a challenging programming task to take out the male/female/- options and replace them with a write-in field. I would be thrilled and all the more proud to be a member of WR if this were to come to pass.

Mike?

Perhaps best discussed in a dedicated thread, the option to specify a profession seems to me to be highly relevant to the process of translating and/or explaining text. For instance, I would sooner take the advice of an MD than a salesperson in translating medical terminology.

 

[elroy]

to take out the male/female/- options and replace them with a write-in field.

I support this, if it’s feasible.

 

[Loob]

Re post 45 and 46: would Mike be able to reflect that choice in "hover over username" mode?

 

[swift]

I don't think it would be a challenging programming task to take out the male/female/- options and replace them with a write-in field.

I like the spirit of your suggestion, but it would remove the ability of localizing the gender options in other supported languages.

What many linguists on Twitter do is put their pronouns in brackets next to their name, e.g., Jane Doe (she/her). I would think that there is enough real estate below the usernames here to include that information.

 

[Reina de la Aldea]

What many linguists on Twitter do is put their pronouns in brackets next to their name, e.g., Jane Doe (she/her). I would think that there is enough real estate below the usernames here to include that information.

Brilliant! All the better!

would Mike be able to reflect that choice in "hover over username" mode?

That would be no problem provided the write-in field is feasible. But with swift's suggestion, there would be no need

 

[Rallino]

I was kinda hoping the gender fluidity trend wouldn't be caught on with, on WRF... In any case, I would go with Male/Female/(Blank). I don't think the fact that it's in English to be an issue for even monolinguals using the site