Miłego dnia

schabernack

Member
Austria, German
I tried to translate it but I'm lost. I know that my friend couldn't use Polish letters. Guess that makes it so hard for me to find those words.
:confused:
 
  • Nanon

    Senior Member
    français (France)
    I remember having received faxes from a Polish company (some years ago, when faxes were still in use...) and at the bottom of each fax they wrote "Have a nice day / Miłego dnia".
     

    jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    I tried to translate it but I'm lost. I know that my friend couldn't use Polish letters. Guess that makes it so hard for me to find those words.
    You probably didn't find the words because dictionaries list them in the nominative (the subject's case) and those two words in the genitive (roughly of someone, something). The genitive was used there because of an implicit życzyć (to wish), which requires the genitive case.
     

    mietagosia

    Senior Member
    Poland, Polish
    To answer Setwale_Charm's question - yes, it is quite common to say it on formal occasions (eg when you buy something in a shop and the assistant wishes you a nice day, etc). In everyday interactions with friends and relatives we don't really say that - sounds quite ackward and a bit artificial. If we want someone dear and close to us to do well (especially if they have an exam or something really important that day) we simply wish them luck, which is: Powodzenia!

    MietaGosia
     

    .Jordi.

    Senior Member
    polonès
    So if you wanna wish someone close just a "wonderful day" what do you say?

    Nothing. Wishing a "wonderful day" sounds, just like pani MietaGosia said, awful and extremely unnatural. It's used mainly by young and bad educated people with poor knowledge of their own language and lack of understanding their own culture. Recently also adult people tend to use that expression. Those people are trying to be "oh, I'm so kind, I'm wishing you a wonderful day, but honestly i don't give a shit what kind of day you're going to have".
     
    Nothing. Wishing a "wonderful day" sounds, just like pani MietaGosia said, awful and extremely unnatural. It's used mainly by young and bad educated people with poor knowledge of their own language and lack of understanding their own culture. Recently also adult people tend to use that expression. Those people are trying to be "oh, I'm so kind, I'm wishing you a wonderful day, but honestly i don't give a shit what kind of day you're going to have".


    Curious logic, in our Western view.
     

    candy-man

    Senior Member
    Polish/Poland
    To answer Setwale_Charm's question - yes, it is quite common to say it on formal occasions (eg when you buy something in a shop and the assistant wishes you a nice day, etc). In everyday interactions with friends and relatives we don't really say that - sounds quite ackward and a bit artificial. If we want someone dear and close to us to do well (especially if they have an exam or something really important that day) we simply wish them luck, which is: Powodzenia!

    MietaGosia


    Well, what you have just said seems weird to me as I use this expression a great deal (even in my bunch of friends) I swear!!! Do I use it!!!! Nevertheless at times I substitute a bit the basic pattern for Miłego dnia just for a change. Anyway,they are both interchangeable and frankly, I see no reason for regarding it as being uncommon.
    It´s a typical Polish trait to bewilder things :/ Different standpoints even if we share the same culture? Or maybe I´m an extraterrestrial creature? Let me think for a while...
     

    mietagosia

    Senior Member
    Poland, Polish
    Might be curious for you, but at least we are honest ;-). I am currently living in Costa Rica and it really bothers me how everybody is asking me "Como estas?" (Spanish for "How are you?") all the time, without even expecting the answer or expecting to hear "I'm extraordinarily fine!" (even when I'm obviously not). For Latin Americans it's a term of courtesy, for me their carelessness and asking without meaning it, implies rudness. When Polish people ask you, at least you are sure that they really care :D. Also, to add to Mr. Jordi's post - Polish language is undergoing a strong influence of the English language (not only in terms of vocabulary but also regarding the sentence structure). That's part of the reason why saying "Have a nice day" became more popular among people who have interest in you, let's say, on a commercial level (offices, shops, business negotiations, etc). Also, I observed a new trend some time ago, again mostly among shop assistants. When you ask them something and they want to show how much they agree with you, they nod their heads and say "Dokładnie!", which is a direct translation of the English "Exactly!". It doesn't really sound natural either and it's considered a linguistic calque. There are so many other examples, but I don't want to make to many offtopics - that would have to be a topic for a separate thread.

    Cheers,
    MietaGosia
     

    candy-man

    Senior Member
    Polish/Poland
    Well, in fact I live and study in Spain and I don´t give a darn what the Spaniards respond to me. I don´t care about their attitude to me,either. You know, it just doesn´t stike me. It´s so called culture clash. As for me, I have come to terms with the fact but also came across a good many people who are the opposite of how you´re describing them. Bear in mind that those expressions you have pointed out have been used for ages in our country.Anyway, I admit you´re right to some extent when it comes to the immense influence of English on our language in terms of vocabulary an so on and the emphasis that is put on their more frequent use. In any case, you seem to have exaggerated claiming that Polish people are that sincere. I regret to say, but here you are wrong altogether.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I use this expression, not too often, but still and I also hear it once in a while. I don't consider myself uneducated or that I have a poor knowledge of my own culture just because I use it. I had been using it for quite a time before I got to know that it is a calque from English, but I haven't ceased to do so. Our culture changes and we can't stop it, there's no way to bowdlerise some expressions that don't belong in our culture as the process of their infiltrating into us is inevitable especially these days. Needless to say this also brings about all sorts of changes that I also don't like.
    I also don't use the expression in question as one of those empty clichés, which are so copious in our polszczyzna of late, because I don't tell anyone have a good day or with the frequency with which the expression is used in English-speaking countries. When I say Miłego dnia to someone I mean it.

    Tom
     

    .Jordi.

    Senior Member
    polonès
    Curious logic, in our Western view.

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Setwale_Charm,
    than are dreamt of in your philosophy ;).


    I use this expression, not too often, but still and I also hear it once in a while. I don't consider myself uneducated or that I have a poor knowledge of my own culture just because I use it.
    Because you're an exception to the rule.

    Our culture changes and we can't stop it, there's no way to bowdlerise some expressions that don't belong in our culture as the process of their infiltrating into us is inevitable especially these days. Needless to say this also brings about all sorts of changes that I also don't like.
    Yeah, our ,,polszczyzna" also changes and some people just can't stop saying "szłem" instead of "szedłem". Does it mean that we should considerate "szłem" as a form of the same level of correctness like "szedłem"? No, it does not. It does mean, that we should never be indifferent when something wrong happens in the language.

    But as long as there are people (especially young people, like mrs. MiętaGosia) which really cares about language, there is hope.

    Have a nice day, all of you :).

    - J.
     
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Setwale_Charm,
    than are dreamt of in your philosophy ;).


    Because you're an exception to the rule.

    Yeah, our ,,polszczyzna" also changes and some people just can't stop saying "szłem" instead of "szedłem". Does it mean that we should considerate "szłem" as a form of the same level of correctness like "szedłem"? No, it does not. It does mean, that we should never be indifferent when something wrong happens in the language.

    But as long as there are people (especially young people, like mrs. MiętaGosia) which really cares about language, there is hope.

    Have a nice day, all of you :).

    - J.

    I assure you, Jordi, that the boundaries of my philosophy and dreaming go much further than you can imagine;)
    I just pointed out that such a viewpoint is contrary to the one common in the West, just like the Chinese perception of asking personal questions is very different from the English and, probably, the Polish perception of it too.
    I would wonder, however, at which point you start distinguishing the natural course of language evolution (which has led all languages including Polish to what they are today) from "something wrong happening in the language".
     

    candy-man

    Senior Member
    Polish/Poland
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Setwale_Charm,
    than are dreamt of in your philosophy ;).


    Because you're an exception to the rule.

    Yeah, our ,,polszczyzna" also changes and some people just can't stop saying "szłem" instead of "szedłem". Does it mean that we should considerate "szłem" as a form of the same level of correctness like "szedłem"? No, it does not. It does mean, that we should never be indifferent when something wrong happens in the language.

    But as long as there are people (especially young people, like mrs. MiętaGosia) which really cares about language, there is hope.

    Have a nice day, all of you :).

    - J.

    Since when have we been saying Milego dnia? Since the English language started playing a meaningful role in today´s world? Has it ever been considered a grave collocation or something?Have you ever heard a linguistic specialist claiming that it does not sound well in Polsih and seen a native speaker of the language frowning while hearing it? As far as I can remember, it´s been valid for me since I was a child. And is it a recent mistake to say szłem? The answer is:NO! I was wondering about your comparison between the two expressions and my guess it that the grade of incorrectness here is incomparable and mistaken. I honestly have no clue what you´re aiming at. You can be sure that my Polish sounds perfect and natural even if I say so:D
     

    .Jordi.

    Senior Member
    polonès
    Since when have we been saying Milego dnia? You've been saying ,,miłego dnia" since middle of the 90's. Since the English language started playing a meaningful role in today´s world? Has it ever been considered a grave collocation or something? Have you ever heard a linguistic specialist claiming that it does not sound well in Polsih and seen a native speaker of the language frowning while hearing it? Yes, I did hear a lot of linguistic specialists giving opinion about this sentence many times, during my classes of culture of the polish language at the university and during various lectures about modern polish language. As far as I can remember, it´s been valid for me since I was a child. Valid among who? Among children? Among adults without linguistic arrangements (especially without polish philology studies?)? It's quite a poor argument, I would say. And is it a recent mistake to say szłem? It's not a mistake, it's just a lack of education.The answer is:NO! :thumbsup: I was wondering about your comparison between the two expressions and my guess it that the grade of incorrectness here is incomparable and mistaken. I honestly have no clue what you´re aiming at. I was only trying to say, that if you admit ,,życzę miłego dnia" as something normative in polish literary language, then someone could propose that we should also accept other forms just because there is a lot of people using it. I just want to say that we should not allow to degenarate our language at any level. You can be sure that my Polish sounds perfect and natural even if I say so:D I'm glad to hear that :thumbsup:.
     
    I fail to see where the argument has arisen from. We started with discussing whether a particular phrase is used in the Polish language, then swittched somehow to discussing whether politeness is a bad thing to borrow and finally arrived at strange defending of the language from any possibility of borrowing from other languages in the course of its development in the world which is presumably supposed to be the task of linguistic scientists.
    I am sorry to hear, Jordi, that children and adults without some linguistic education are such undeserving and poor representatives of culture in your eyes. Let me remind you that it is by them, and not by academicians, that your native Polish language, just like any language in the world, has gradually been created through the centuries of its history, it is through their mouths that it has been evolving into what it is today. They are the true makers and the base of their national culture. We know far too well what sad fate normally awaits languages created, maintained and used by the educated "egg-heads".
    And as to the language being corrupted by borrowings from the outside, the only reason why you are not speaking some Proto-Slavic at any stage of its development and further into the depths of time but Polish, is that is has been borrowing abundantly from other languages which it either came in contact with naturally or which were playing a meaningful role in the surrounding world at the time.
    I can understand to an extent when speakers of some isolated language like Rapanui declare their desire to preserved their semi-living language shielded from borrowings, since it has been such for centuries, as part of an experiment, and since they are not counting on any real future for it and for their ethnicity, but when it happens with languages in the centre of Europe, like Polish, I am only left to wonder what is wrong here, I'm afraid. Some over-pious categorical "patriotism" works only to the detriment of the culture and its dignity, I'm afraid, indicating that something is really wrong with the national feeling. (This painfully reminds me of some trendy political moods in today's Russia:()
     

    schabernack

    Member
    Austria, German
    I also think that twist in the topic is interesting.
    To go back to the topic....
    What would you say if you wish a very close person a nice day? This close person is on the other side of the world. What I want to say is, you don't have that person in front of you.
    How would you wish a nice day or so?
     

    .Jordi.

    Senior Member
    polonès
    Dear Setwale_Charm,

    I compare the point of view which you've presented, but you're writing about things such obvious that it would rather difficil to dissagre. However, in some parts you're referring to my previous posts. And I'm afraid that you've completely overunderstood my words. I suppose that this doesn't have anything to do with your bad will but only with my poor english. For that reason I don't feel obligated to give my opinion about things which you're trying to impute me (things which I didn't write about). Anyway, you should be a little bit more carefull while acusing someone of being ignorant. And you really do not have to tell me anything about history of my language, moreover, I would say that you should abstain from giving some kind of statements without being sure of their correctness, because this may lead - just like in this case - to their falsement. Any further off-topic discussion is pointless, at least in these thread and in such an atmosphere of hostility.

    Regards,

    - J.
     

    Oletta

    Senior Member
    What would you say if you wish a very close person a nice day? This close person is on the other side of the world. What I want to say is, you don't have that person in front of you.
    How would you wish a nice day or so?
    You can say: "trzymaj się ciepło", "powodzenia", in the past people would say "bądź zdrów" and I have noticed that the expression reappears in the contemporary times, probably among the linguistic purists, but still I have heard some people say so, and sometimes i do, "udanego wieczoru/wyjazdu", "udanej niedzieli" or rarely "udanego dnia". I hope some other Poles can add to it. Mostly it depends on the context, you don't have to generalise and wish "a happy" day, you just precise your greetings.
     

    BezierCurve

    Senior Member
    Well, at the moment I can only think about "Trzymaj się ciepło!", since it is not a calque of the English "have a nice day" (which, as seen above, might be received with very ambiguous feelings) and still preserves the feeling of caring and wishing well without any special occassion. Any other ideas welcome.

    PS. It just occurred to me, that since the person you talk to knows that Polish is not your native language, he/she should in no way be sarcastic or criticize you wishing him/her "Miłego dnia".
     
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