Microsoft Grammar

Nick

Senior Member
USA, English
Thank goodness for Microsoft Word. ;)

microsoftgrammar1rh.png
 
  • EVAVIGIL

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    Sorry, Nick, I just don't get it! :(
    I might be going through a phase...
    But then again, no-one else has posted a reply... :cool:
    Cheers!
    EVA.
     

    JJchang

    Senior Member
    NZ - English, Chinese
    "Be" is correct. I think most of the time Microsoft does a good job though.
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    whodunit said:
    A machine doesn't know everything. You have to ignore such things. I always wondered whether this is correct:

    Patrick and me went over the floor. (my suggestion)
    OR
    Patrick and I went over the floor. (Microsoft's suggestion)


    The second sentence, "Patrick and I went over the floor," is the correct version. The way to know is to take out Patrick (or whoever). You would never say "me went over the floor."
     

    EVAVIGIL

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    I agree with Gotitadeleche, and I find that test quite useful (to take out the first part of the subject).
    Thank you!!
    EVA.
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    whodunit said:
    Thank you very much. But if I'd say "Patrick and me, we went ..." so that would be the correct one.

    And what about this site?


    We = you and I, so the correct one is "Patrick and I, we went..."

    I is used for the subject, me is used as an object; e.g.: "He gave it to John and me." "He gave it to us, to John and me."
     

    mirandolina

    Senior Member
    Scotland - English
    No, it would still be wrong and the site is definitely wrong too.
    It should say "Spot where Patrick and I camped....".
    Even native speakers frequently get this wrong.
    Then there is the other case, where people say things like "this is a photo of Patrick and I" - obviously the correct form is "this is a photo of Patrick and me".
    Again, the test is to remove Patrick!



    whodunit said:
    Thank you very much. But if I'd say "Patrick and me, we went ..." so that would be the correct one.

    And what about this site?
     

    te gato

    Senior Member
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    Sorry whodunit;

    gotitadeleche and mirandolina are correct...
    I = Subject...
    Me = object..
    and I always comes at the end of a sentence...
    Example: "Mary and Joan and I are going to the movies"..(subject) you are the subject...
    "this is a picture of Bob and Me"...(object)..the picture is the object.

    te gato;)
     

    lsp

    Senior Member
    NY
    US, English
    whodunit said:
    Thank you very much. But if I'd say "Patrick and me, we went ..." so that would be the correct one.

    And what about this site?
    Absolutely agree that taking Patrick out will yield the correct result in both examples. As an additional caveat before taking English lessons from random websites, notice that the same site spelled "where" incorrectly.
     

    CubaCelt

    Member
    Ireland, English
    Using "me" is considered common. Officially "Patrick and I" is correct. It is aslo a matter of good manners. It is considered impolite to put onself first " me and Patrick or I and Patrick" would also be wrong. Of course in everday language you will hear "me" and not "I".
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    lsp said:
    Absolutely agree that taking Patrick out will yield the correct result in both examples. As an additional caveat before taking English lessons from random websites, notice that the same site spelled "where" incorrectly.

    Thank you all very much. Now I'm positive what is correct. The thing with "where" didn't even catch my eye though. Thank you again.

    CubaCelt said:
    Of course in everday language you will hear "me" and not "I".

    Have you really heard this? But that contradicts all the replies here. :confused:
     

    CubaCelt

    Member
    Ireland, English
    Using "Patrick and I" or "You and I.." are correct formal English. English speakers would use this form in a job interview or a formal social occasion. You will hear school children being corrected when they use the "me" form. However in everyday language it is almost always "me and Patrick". Someone using "Patrick and I" would be considered a snob (an upper class twat).
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    CubaCelt said:
    Someone using "Patrick and I" would be considered a snob (an upper class twat).

    Ah, the joys of BE vs. AE. An American would have written, "...(an upper class twit)."

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. twat PRONUNCIATION: tw
    obreve.gif
    t NOUN:1. Vulgar Slang The vulva. 2. Offensive & Vulgar Slang A woman or girl. ETYMOLOGY:Origin unknown.
     

    CubaCelt

    Member
    Ireland, English
    Hola CuChu

    Is there a place on the net where I can find audio versions of specific Spanish words?

    PS: The greatest writers in the English language were Irish.
     

    te gato

    Senior Member
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    CubaCelt said:
    Using "Patrick and I" or "You and I.." are correct formal English. English speakers would use this form in a job interview or a formal social occasion. You will hear school children being corrected when they use the "me" form. However in everyday language it is almost always "me and Patrick". Someone using "Patrick and I" would be considered a snob (an upper class twat).

    CubaCelt;
    Hello..First..Yes the children are corrected for this Improper usage of the word "Me"....Second..Then I must be an upper class twat/twit because I do not say it that way:D ..and neither do any of my friends, relatives, associates..yadda, yadda...So I was just wondering...Would using the wrong version be a "American" thing?? :confused:
    te gato;)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    te gato said:
    CubaCelt;
    Hello..First..Yes the children are corrected for this Improper usage of the word "Me"....Second..Then I must be an upper class twat/twit because I do not say it that way:D ..and neither do any of my friends, relatives, associates..yadda, yadda...So I was just wondering...Would using the wrong version be a "American" thing?? :confused:
    te gato;)

    And I must be a child that would say "me".

    Why did you write "a 'American' thing"? I would've written "an 'American' thing". Don't you assimilate the article "a" to a word beginning with a pronounced vowel in inverteted commas? Or was it a typo?

    E.g. an English accent --> but a "English accent" --> and an English "accent" --> so "a(n?)/one" English accent ???

    Oh, no, English can be so difficult sometimes.
     

    te gato

    Senior Member
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    whodunit said:
    And I must be a child that would say "me".

    Why did you write "a 'American' thing"? I would've written "an 'American' thing". Don't you assimilate the article "a" to a word beginning with a pronounced vowel in inverteted commas? Or was it a typo?

    E.g. an English accent --> but a "English accent" --> and an English "accent" --> so "a(n?)/one" English accent ???

    Oh, no, English can be so difficult sometimes.
    Hello whodunit;
    I did not intend to offend..I was asking a question ? Here in Canada we do not use 'me' that way...and I do not consider myself a snob or a twat :(
    As for the a/an ...oops typo...thanks..
    te gato;)
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    CubaCelt said:
    Using "Patrick and I" or "You and I.." are correct formal English. English speakers would use this form in a job interview or a formal social occasion. You will hear school children being corrected when they use the "me" form. However in everyday language it is almost always "me and Patrick". Someone using "Patrick and I" would be considered a snob (an upper class twat).

    Although you hear "Patrick and me" used as a subject quite often in the US, it generally show a lower level of education, or at least someone unconcerned about grammar. Worse yet, you will hear "Me and Patrick," which sounds "country" and/or uneducated. You can actually hear people say, "Me an' Patrick was coming up the road when..." That is three errors in the first four words: using me as the subject, putting me before the other person, and using a single verb with two subjects.
     

    CubaCelt

    Member
    Ireland, English
    gotitadeleche said:
    Although you hear "Patrick and me" used as a subject quite often in the US, it generally show (SHOWS) a lower level of education, or at least someone unconcerned about grammar. Worse yet, you will hear "Me and Patrick," which sounds "country" and/or uneducated. You can actually hear people say, "Me an' Patrick was coming up the road when..." That is three errors in the first four words: using me as the subject, putting me before the other person, and using a single verb with two subjects.

    It is not only a case of grammar it is also efficiency. It is quicker and easier to say "me and Patrick". Of course this construction would never be used if your friends name was Joe.
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    whodunit said:
    Thank you very much. But if I'd say "Patrick and me, we went ..." so that would be the correct one.

    And what about this site?
    MILLIONS of people would say, informally, what you just typed, and therefore you will see it in many books, in dialogue. You will normally not find it in narration. I also believe you will hear it many more times than you will see it.

    But I would try to avoid it. I would not say it myself. Many people would lable it "sub-standard" English.

    Gaer
     

    gotitadeleche

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    CubaCelt said:
    It is not only a case of grammar it is also efficiency. It is quicker and easier to say "me and Patrick". Of course this construction would never be used if your friends name was Joe.

    CubaCelt, I hope you did not take offense at what I said. Perhaps I was not clear enough, but I was trying to compare with the attitude toward that usage here in the United States. Apparently in Ireland it's use is more widespread and accepted. And thanks for correcting my spelling error. :thumbsup:
     

    CubaCelt

    Member
    Ireland, English
    gotitadeleche said:
    CubaCelt, I hope you did not take offense at what I said. Perhaps I was not clear enough, but I was trying to compare with the attitude toward that usage here in the United States. Apparently in Ireland it's use is more widespread and accepted. And thanks for correcting my spelling error. :thumbsup:

    No offence taken, I think in many part of the US people are more formal. In Ireland also people do not think of English as the our own language. That's probably why we feel free to abuse it when is suits us.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    CubaCelt said:
    No offence taken, I think in many parts of the US people are more formal. In Ireland also people do not think of English as their own language. That's probably why we feel free to abuse it when is suits us.

    I don't want to correct you, but I'm positive there were two typos. I've not let me know, and I'll delete my suggestions in your quotation.
     

    lsp

    Senior Member
    NY
    US, English
    gotitadeleche said:
    Although you hear "Patrick and me" used as a subject quite often in the US, it generally show a lower level of education, or at least someone unconcerned about grammar. Worse yet, you will hear "Me and Patrick," which sounds "country" and/or uneducated. You can actually hear people say, "Me an' Patrick was coming up the road when..." That is three errors in the first four words: using me as the subject, putting me before the other person, and using a single verb with two subjects.
    I agree completely. And I am not referring to formal speech or formal writing. It is often said incorrectly in laziness, in those most casual situations where laziness might go unnoticed, but it's still plain old wrong. Although gammar, as many WR posts discuss, is not a high priority in America anymore, this one is neither an obscure rule (like a split infinitive), nor a much-debated one (like ending a sentence with a preposition).
     

    garryknight

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    whodunit said:
    CubaCelt said:
    No offence taken, I think in many parts of the US people are more formal. In Ireland also people do not think of English as their own language. That's probably why we feel free to abuse it when it suits us.

    I don't want to correct you, but I'm positive there were two typos. I've If not let me know, and I'll delete my suggestions in your quotation.

    There were 3 typos in CubaCelt's post. And 1 in yours. :)
     

    Nick

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    The "me and ..." construction is often used in spoken English as things are remembered.

    - Who was at the party last Saturday?
    - Me and ... Joe and Sue, ... Mark, ... John, Bob, Melissa, ... Robert.


    The "me and ..." construction is informal and is acceptable in almost all situations (it is only unacceptable in a formal setting, such as a job interview). As said before, to say "... and I" can seem snobbish.
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Nick said:
    The "me and ..." construction is often used in spoken English as things are remembered.

    - Who was at the party last Saturday?
    - Me and ... Joe and Sue, ... Mark, ... John, Bob, Melissa, ... Robert.


    The "me and ..." construction is informal and is acceptable in almost all situations (it is only unacceptable in a formal setting, such as a job interview). As said before, to say "... and I" can seem snobbish.
    I'm not sure everyone here would agree with you about "... and I" sounding snobbish, but you're very right that it is VERY common. :)

    Gaer
     

    te gato

    Senior Member
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    gaer said:
    I'm not sure everyone here would agree with you about "... and I" sounding snobbish, but you're very right that it is VERY common. :)

    Gaer
    Hello gaer;
    Yes you are correct.. we have been through the
    Snob = Twit = Twat exchange...:eek: in this thread..I still can't believe I' m considered a twat....
    te gato;)
     

    Benjy

    Senior Member
    English - English
    te gato said:
    Hello gaer;
    Yes you are correct.. we have been through the
    Snob = Twit = Twat exchange...:eek: in this thread..I still can't believe I' m considered a twat....
    te gato;)

    hrm twat in brE sense of the word? :confused:
     

    lsp

    Senior Member
    NY
    US, English
    gaer said:
    In fact, I rarely mention typos unless I'm not sure if the person who typed them might be making a real mistake, not a typing mistake. :)
    I agree, with one more exception: if I think it is confusing for people who are learning the language used, perhaps still at a beginner level, who might be confused (see edit above) :D!
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    lsp said:
    I agree, with one more exception: if I think it is confusing for people who are learning the language used, perhaps still at a beginner level, who might be confused (see edit above) :D!
    Good point! And that would not have been caught by a spellchecker either. :)
     

    lsp

    Senior Member
    NY
    US, English
    Benjy said:
    i have no respect for a man who can only spell a word one way :D
    And all the people who agree have the utmost respect for you!!!!!!
    Affectionately (you know that, right?) :):):)
    Lsp
     

    mjscott

    Senior Member
    American English
    please, Please, PLEASE--has anyone besides me (or is it I?) read the word, twat and known that it is a somewhat derogatory term (more offensive than me or I usage) for female anatomy--(or am I in the wrong forum?)

    However, in my neck of the woods it's okay to call someone a twit.
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    mjscott said:
    please, Please, PLEASE--has anyone besides me (or is it I?) read the word, twat and known that it is a somewhat derogatory term (more offensive than me or I usage) for female anatomy--(or am I in the wrong forum?)

    However, in my neck of the woods it's okay to call someone a twit.
    I DEFINITELY noticed it, but apparently no one else wanted to call attention to it. Actually, it ticked me off…

    Gaer
     

    te gato

    Senior Member
    Alberta--TGE (te gato English)
    gaer said:
    I DEFINITELY noticed it, but apparently no one else wanted to call attention to it. Actually, it ticked me off…

    Gaer
    No others noticed it as well...cuchu responded...but yes it was not a nice thing to say....
    te gato;)
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    lsp said:
    I thought Post #16 was pretty clear.
    Obviously not to the person who posted the insulting word, who apparently thinks this is a perfectly acceptable word here and who did not have the manners to apologize.

    The point, as I see it, is that someone made a very nasty comment, for no reason, and only one person acknowledged it. No one else stood up for the person who was insulted.

    If it had happened to me, I'd be steamed.

    So, what am I missing here?

    Gaer
     
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