misogynistic, traditional conception (Order of adjectives)

elprofe

Senior Member
Spanish (Spain)
Hello users!

I am writing an abstract and I would like to know how to put these adjectives in the correct order. So, should it be "misogynistic, traditional conception" or "traditional, misogynistic conception"? "His" refers to "Ortega y Gasset"

This paper brings to light the contradiction resulting from his misogynistic, traditional conception of female scholars and his willingness to introduce them to their corresponding intellectual fields at the time.

Thank you in advance :)
 
  • elprofe

    Senior Member
    Spanish (Spain)
    Sure! I'll write both texts so you can get a better picture...

    Spanish text
    El artículo aborda la relación de José Ortega y Gasset con las mujeres intelectuales de su tiempo, partiendo de la contradicción que presenta su concepción de la mujer ―tradicional y misógina― con respecto a la ayuda que profesó hacia algunas de sus coetáneas a la hora de insertarse en el campo intelectual del momento.

    My attempt
    This paper aims to shed light on the relationship between José Ortega y Gasset and female scholars of his time. The paper/study sheds light on the contradiction presented between his misogynistic, traditional conception of female scholars and his willingness to introduce them to their corresponding intellectual fields at the time.

    As you can see, I made quite a few changes... :)
     

    Dosamuno

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Bev, with all due respect, I think the Spanish sentence is not relevant here.
    The rules for the order of adjective are complex.
    Here is one simple assessment:

    Order of Adjectives in English: Useful Rules & Examples

    In elprofe's example, I would say, traditional, misogynistic conception

    This apparently violates the rule of opinion before age, but English is my native language, and my instinct tells me it sounds correct. However, perhaps "traditional" expresses opinion more than age.
     
    Last edited:

    elprofe

    Senior Member
    Spanish (Spain)
    Thank you Dosamuno!
    Absolutely! I interpreted both adjectives as "opinion adjectives", so there was no way for me to know which one should go before the other... :)
     

    Dosamuno

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    I often used this sentence with my advanced ESL classes to discuss the order of adjectives. To comment on it here would consume too much space and time, but it’s fascinating to group the words and try to extract rules—fat, ugly, mean, stupid; unwashed, misanthropic; cheap, drunken.

    “I don't like to use words that are too harsh in describing people. I don't like to. But the landlady is a fat, ugly, mean, stupid, unwashed, misanthropic, cheap, drunken bag of garbage. And you may have noticed that I very seldom we profanity, so I can't describe her as well as I might.”

    Edward Albee, Zoo Story

     

    fenixpollo

    moderator
    American English
    Bev, with all due respect, I think the Spanish sentence is not relevant here.
    I disagree. First, because this is a translation forum that also deals with grammar questions, it's always better to include the source text as context. Second, because in this specific case, the punctuation of the source text makes the question of adjective order a moot one, if our translation retains the punctuation of the original.

    ...partiendo de la contradicción que presenta su concepción de la mujer ―tradicional y misógina― con respecto a la ayuda que profesó hacia algunas de sus coetáneas...
    ...starting with the the contradiction presented by his concept of women ― traditional and misogynistic ― with respect to the assistance he provided to several of his female contemporaries...
     

    Cenzontle

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    Here are three reasons to put "traditional" before "misogynistic":
    1. Semantically, "misogynistic" can be seen as a subset of "traditional"—at least more so than vice versa.
    Turn the reader in the general direction of the idea, and then focus on the specific quality.
    2. Phonologically, "misogynistic" is longer than "traditional"; the order I suggest follows the principle of "short before long".
    3. Most readers easily understand "traditional"; fewer readers will readily understand "misogynistic".
    Put the familiar word before the "exotic" one.

    I agree with Dosamuno: the Spanish sentence is unnecessary.
     

    elprofe

    Senior Member
    Spanish (Spain)
    Thank you very much Cenzontle for taking part in the discussion. I know one's very unlikely to find an explanation like yours in a grammar book, but it's certainly really helpful to read such thoughts from a native speaker...

    As for the original sentence, I was kind of reluctant to put it at the beginning because the English translation on which I had to work was not a faithful translation of the Spanish text, so I was afraid this could lead to off-topic discussions...

    Thank you for your help!
     
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