Mock Trial

  • doodlebugger

    Senior Member
    France
    I don't think this is correct zonbette.
    Un simulacre de procès is derogatory and generally refers to a totally unfair trial.
    A mock trial is like an imitation of a trial where lawyers argue hypothetically.
    It doesn't carry any derogatory meaning as far as I know.
    Perhaps une simulation de procès or un procès simulé might work better.
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    J'aurais pensé que "mock" avait également ce sens négatif. Merci de m'avoir corrigée.
    Et tu n'avais pas tort.:) Le Robert & Collins propose en effet « simulacre de procès », pour traduire "mock trial" .
    Et le Petit Robert donne comme exemple « simulacre de procès », sous l'entrée simulacre.

    J'ai répondu simulé/fictif, plus haut, simplement p.c.q. c'est plus courant. àma, dans certains contextes précis, simulacre pourrait mieux convenir.
     

    Kelly B

    Senior Member
    USA English
    As Nicomon suggests, I think that the phrase can convey either of those meanings, and the correct translation depends on the context. Unfortunately, Shahrzad didn't offer any context - I hope that he will.
     

    clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    ou encore (quoique moins courant) « caricature de procès ». Mais je crois que dans ce cas, de même que pour fantoche, on dirait en anglais mockery trial.
    I don't think "mockery trial" means anything in English (literally it would mean a trial of a someone's plans to mock someone else or a contest between people to find out who can mock others best!). I agree with those who think "mock trial" (without further context) could mean either (1) a practice/educational staging of a trial (2) an unjust trial. However, there are other ways to express (2) so I think the normal initial understanding would be (1).
     

    Arrius

    Senior Member
    English, UK
    The political trials in Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and Maoist China, where everybody including the accused knew the verdict would be guilty, were always referred to in the English language press as "mock trials". "Mock" here has the meaning of "false" or, perhaps better, "sham" already mentioned above, which latter adjective was also used to describe such procedures viz. "sham trials". They were also referred to as "a farce". "Mock" has the same meaning in "mock turtle soup" which in fact contains no turtle at all, but curry powder and worcester sauce with such meat as there is of bovine origin (formerly calf's head). The term is always pejorative and, at least in the western democracies, nobody thought there was anything good about such trials. My Harrap's Dictionary also gives "simulacre de procès", and "procès dérisoire", making a distinction which English does not appear to make.
    Nicoman's "parodie de procès" also sounds good to me,whilst doodlebugger's "parodie de justice" would seem to me to be rather a translation of "a travesty of justice", which applies when a trial not planned as a mock trial has gone horribly wrong. I do agree, however, that a mock trial can also mean a practical exercise for law students or part of a student's union ritual directed mainly against freshmen (béjaunes). I myself underwent such a trial for coming late to supper and was sentenced to public display in a cold coke and cocoa bath (sic) in the midst of a Yorkshire winter!
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    Yes

    I've also just realised what the "mockery trial" suggestion was getting at: "a mockery of a trial" is an unjust trial.
    My mistake.:eek: That's in fact what I meant to write. And this, as per Robert & Collins Dictionary, which I think is a reliable source, translates to parodie/caricature de procès. Now I don't interpret parodie/caricature as "unjust", but then, I could be misinterpreting.

    In any event, I answered option #1 in post # 4. simulé/fictif... in absence of exact context.;)
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    Arrius;2599522] Nicomon's "parodie de procès" also sounds good to me
    Just to render onto Caesar... it was archijacq suggestion. I just confirmed.:)
    I myself underwent such a trial for coming late to supper and was sentenced to public display in a cold coke and cocoa bath (sic) in the midst of a Yorkshire winter!
    Now it could have been worse. Just you picture the same "sentence", in the midst of an end of February Quebec winter.:eek: :D


    For the record... Nicomon is feminine (stupid choice of name, I know).
     

    clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    My mistake.:eek: That's in fact what I meant to write. And this, as per Robert & Collins Dictionary, which I think is a reliable source, translates to parodie/caricature de procès. Now I don't interpret parodie/caricature as "unjust", but then, I could be misinterpreting.
    In BE, "a mockery of a trial" would definitely be intended to say that the trial was unjust - the mockery/parody/caricature aspect being the surface meaning; the deeper meaning being that the trial was unjust because it was not a proper trial.
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    In BE, "a mockery of a trial" would definitely be intended to say that the trial was unjust - the mockery/parody/caricature aspect being the surface meaning; the deeper meaning being that the trial was unjust because it was not a proper trial.
    Thanks clairet. I said that I could be misinterpreting, and obviously saw the surface meaning only. Just my own francophone misunderstanding of the word "injust".
    Nothing to do with BE vs AE or CE... not this time.;)
     

    Mme Machin

    Senior Member
    USA English
    In American high schools, Mock Trial is an extracurricular activity like Speech, Debate, and Chess Club. Students assume the roles of attorneys, plaintiffs, defendants, etc. and act out a trial. What might a person call this activity in French? Procès simulé?
     

    wildan1

    Moderando ma non troppo (French-English, CC Mod)
    In American high schools, Mock Trial is an extracurricular activity like Speech, Debate, and Chess Club. Students assume the roles of attorneys, plaintiffs, defendants, etc. and act out a trial. What might a person call this activity in French? Procès simulé?
    Programme de procès simulés, du moins au Canada--voir .

    On fait bien la distinction en AE entre mock trial (procès simulé) et mockery of a trial (une parodie de procès)
     

    clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    Programme de procès simulés, du moins au Canada--voir .

    On fait bien la distinction en AE entre mock trial (procès simulé) et mockery of a trial (une parodie de procès)
    We make that distinction in BE also. I was surprised by an earlier post that suggested Brits would normally understand "mock trial" to mean an unfair trial, saying this is how trials with predetermined outcomes (like those held by Stalin) are normally described in BE. I think rather that the term "show trial" is normally used for these instances; "mock trial" could mean the same, but I believe it would be unusual. My understanding (as one Brit!) of "mock trial" (subject to context) is the same as Wildan's for AE. As Kelly said earlier, this is "mock" in the same sense as in "mock exam".
     
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