moeten Hebben vs hebben moeten

Alisson Pereira

Senior Member
Portuguese - Brazil
Oi,

I saw the following sentence in a video title.

> Welke films moet je gezien hebben voor de laatste Avengers?


But If change like this: Welke films had je voor de laatste Avengers moeten zien?
Are there differences in meanings between them?

Thanks in advance
 
  • eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    No.

    I'm not too sure what's precisely meant though by both. . Especially not because of the use of 'voor' instead of 'van'
    Voor is perhaps even wrong.
     

    Peterdg

    Senior Member
    Dutch - Belgium
    I agree with eno. I don't know what is meant by the sentence.

    Perhaps if you give some context, it may enlighten us?????
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    A ) Welke afleveringen moet je gezien hebben van de laatste Avengers?
    Voor mij maakt dat al wat zin.
    B) Welke afleveringen had je van de laatste Avengers moeten zien?
    is krak hetzelfde als A
     
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    Peterdg

    Senior Member
    Dutch - Belgium
    I googled the sentence. What they mean is "Which movies must you have seen before you watch Avengers the end game and in what sequence?" (in order to understand that movie).

    In that case, both Allison's sentences are equivalent.
     

    Alisson Pereira

    Senior Member
    Portuguese - Brazil
    When I saw that title i thought this way: "which movies you have to have seen before the last movie of Avangers". Otherwise, it's beter you watch the old ones before you watch the last one.

    I just wanted to know if I change the sentence the meaning was going to be the same.

    So, the two sentences don't make sense to you?
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    When I saw that title i thought this way: "which movies you have to have seen before the last movie of Avangers". Otherwise, it's beter you watch the old ones before you watch the last one.
    That's what I imagined too it was trying to mean.

    I just wanted to know if I change the sentence the meaning was going to be the same.
    Yes, it's equally unintelligible.

    So, the two sentences don't make sense to you?
    Not to me and not to Peterdg.
    Anyhow, as I said here in

    A ) Welke afleveringen moet je gezien hebben van de laatste Avengers?
    Voor mij maakt dat al wat zin.
    B) Welke afleveringen had je van de laatste Avengers moeten zien?
    is krak hetzelfde als A
    your tweaking the sentence from 'moeten gezien hebben' to 'had je moeten zien' is perfectly alright.

    Your OP examples don't make any sense though.

    And the reason for that is the double ellipse.
    One ellipse is the Omitting of 'movie of ' in 'before the last movie of Avengers'

    The second ellips caused me to have to have a guess at the meaning of 'voor'

    What I would have understood straight away would have been:
    Welke films moet je gezien hebben voor het (goed) begrijpen van de laatste film van de Avengers?

    Compare that to your OP's
    Welke films moet je gezien hebben voor de laatste Avengers?
    This is unintelligible. Except when you already know what's it all about. Then it's alright. For the savvy.

    But of course that's what you have with titles without context. They keep it short with ellipses which make it unintelligible at first read.
     
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    Alisson Pereira

    Senior Member
    Portuguese - Brazil
    Actually, my only example is: Welke films had je voor de laatste Avengers moeten zien? The other one is a title that I saw.
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    So? I've said already trice that 'had moeten zien' is the same as 'moet je gezien hebben.' You must have read that a few times already. ..What do you want more?
    What we want more, is context when you make a consultation.

    Forum rules:
    Context
    • Always provide an example sentence and give context.
    You seem to not accept though that the title that you saw was unintelligible to us?
    I had to ask you how you interpreted the meaning of that title. And then to add the necessary information to make it intelligible.
     
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    Alisson Pereira

    Senior Member
    Portuguese - Brazil
    This is unintelligible. Except when you already know what's it all about. Then it's alright. For the savvy
    After that, you explained to me everything which I needed to know, I didn't see that, you changed your answer, didn't you?
     
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