Moimi modelami będą Patrycja i Dawid

gvergara

Senior Member
Castellano (variedad chilensis)
Hi,

I am wondering why a sentence like Moją ulubioną potrawą jest pasta is natural, but not its "inverse" version Pastą jest moja ulubiona potrawa (see this thread). I have just come across the sentence Moimi modelami będą Patrycja i Dawid, and immediately asked myself why the (native) speaker did not say Moje modele będą Patrycją i Dawidem, or Patricją i Dawidem będą moje modele.

Is it because due to their nature only the noun phrases pasta and Patrycja and Dawid can be the subjects about which information is/can be given or are the people or things that are/can be identified/described, whereas my favourite dish and my models can only be considered as descriptions of the (actual) subjects? I mean, in Moją ulubioną potrawą jest pasta and Moimi modelami będą Patrycja i Dawid the noun phrases pasta and Patrycja i Dawid are described as (being) something, something is being said about them (my favourite dish and my models, respectively). I hope that my question does not sound too confusing, but since nouns do not have cases in Spanish, I have always thought that in sentences using the copula to be/ser/być either "half" can be the subject.

Thanks in advance,

G.
 
  • zaffy

    Senior Member
    Polish
    immediately asked myself why the (native) speaker did not say Moje modele będą Patrycją i Dawidem, or Patricją i Dawidem będą moje modele.
    Patrycja i Dawid będą kim/czym? Not kto/co? Or kogo/co?
     
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    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Pasta is well-known to everyone. You are reporting something about pasta by telling us it’s your favorite dish. You may not have a favorite dish, so you can’t assume people know that exists. That’s why I don’t think it works for “my favorite dish” to be the subject.

    Similarly, one would say “Piotr jest Polakiem” or “Polakiem jest Piotr” (“The one who is Polish is Piotr”), but not “Polak jest Piotrem” or “Piotrem jest Polak.”
     

    Henares

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Moje modele będą Patrycją i Dawidem, or Patricją i Dawidem będą moje modele.
    It sounds as if you had two models of something (not fashion models; for example a plastic aircraft) and you were giving them names :). Even in that situation, the latter sentence wouldn’t sound good. Even if some word order is grammatically correct, it doesn’t mean that’s frequently used - it could be used in poetry, lyrics or comedy films.
     

    Drakonica

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Your explanation seems to be close to the truth.

    One element of the set of Germans belongs to the (one element) set of directors of our school.
    - Niemiec jest dyrektorem szkoły.
    One element of the (one element) set of directors of our school belongs to the set of Germans
    - Dyrektor szkoły jest Niemcem.

    ---------
    Unique unit "Hans" belongs to the set of directors of our school.
    - Hans jest dyrektorem szkoły.

    Every element of the set of dogs belongs to the set of animals.
    - Pies jest zwierzęciem.

    Unique unit "Azor" belongs to the set of animals.
    - Azor jest zwierzęciem.
     
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    Henares

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Your explanation seems to be close to the truth.

    One element of the set of Germans belongs to the (one element) set of directors of our school.
    - Niemiec jest dyrektorem szkoły.
    One element of the (one element) set of directors of our school belongs to the set of Germans
    - Dyrektor szkoły jest Niemcem.

    ---------
    Unique unit "Hans" belongs to the set of directors of our school.
    - Hans jest dyrektorem szkoły.

    Every element of the set of dogs belongs to the set of animals.
    - Pies jest zwierzęciem.

    Unique unit "Azor" belongs to the set of directors of dogs.
    - Azor jest zwierzęciem.
    I agree.
    1.
    By analogy: Moje modele będą Patrycją i Dawidem.

    My models will belong to the set of Patrycjas and Dawids. It only make sense if you name something.

    2. Moją ulubioną potrawą jest pasta is natural, but not its "inverse" version Pastą jest moja ulubiona potrawa

    it’ not inversed. It’s a different case. Moja ulubiona potrawa jest pastą.

    My favourite dish belongs to the set of pastas. That’s not true because your favourite dish IS pasta, not belongs to the set of pastas
     
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    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    In my opinion, t’s simply the case of the subject being in the nominative case, whereas the attribute of być is in the instrumental case. The thing you are describing is in the nominative, and what they are is in the instrumental. Because the word order in Polish is relatively free, either element can be at the start of the sentence.
     
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