Molar

Josh_

Senior Member
U.S., English
Rather than disrupt Elroy's thread in the Other Languages Forum I figured I would open this up here.

cherine said:
Elroy, isn't molar ضرس ? or am I getting it wrong ?
I was thinking the same thing. I always thought it was the more common word for molar anyway.

According to the Hans Wehr the other word for molar is طاحنة (TaaHina) while grinder or windmill is طاحون or طاحونة with windmill being more particularized as طاحونة الهواء (TaaHuunat al-hawaa').

I see where Elroy is coming from though because they both come from the same root as they have similar functions.
 
  • elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I posted briefly in the other thread, so I'll elaborate here.

    In colloquial Palestinian Arabic, we definitely use طاحونة (not طاحنة and not طاحون) for "molar."

    "Wisdom tooth," for example, is طاحونة العقل.

    Obviously, we use the same word for "windmill."

    I guess I assumed the same applied to standard Arabic, but perhaps I'm wrong.

    In any case, I am pretty sure ضرس can be used for any tooth. At least in some dialects (Syrian and Lebanese, I think), they use it that way.

    Just in case, I will go back to the other thread and edit my posts to put "Palestinian" before "Arabic." :)
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    :) you're fast, I just replied to you there.

    Well, here's what I know about the subject :
    The Arabic word for tooth is سِنّ in Egypt we "feminize" it : سِنّة the plural is أسنان a dentist is طبيب/دكتور أسنان
    there is also the word ناب , plural أنياب it's "canine" in French.
    The molar is ضرس plural ضروس I think I also read أضراس somewhere. We say ضرس العقل for the wisdom tooth.

    This -to my knowledge- goes for both fus7a and Egyptian 3ammeyya.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Interesting - in Palestinian Arabic we use سن for "tooth," طاحونة for "molar," and ناب for "canine tooth." We don't really use ضرس but if we did it would just mean "tooth." As I said, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's used in Syria and Lebanon.

    Yet another example of differences not only between fus7a and 3aami but between the dialects! :)

    I'd be interested in knowing how these words are used in other dialects.
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    I went ahead and bought that dictionary (The Olive Tree) I was telling you about, Elroy, which is a dictionary of Palestinian Arabic and I can confirm that that TaHuuna (They transliterate as TaHuune*), or just TaHuun, is the word used for molar. But the other definition is just given as mill or millstone. For watermill it lists TaHuunet mayy.

    There are also some proverbs listed under it. You can confirm these, Elroy.

    kull iT-Turo2 bitwaddi 3a-T-TaHuune
    All roads lead to Rome.
    Literally: All roads lead to the mill.

    been Hajareen iT-TaHuune
    Between a rock and a hard place; between the Devil and the deep blue sea
    Literally: Between the two millstones.

    Surprisingly the word Dirs was not in there. I say surprisingly because I thought that word was common throughout the dialects.

    I'm pretty sure that Dirs, in Egyptian Arabic, is only molar. It cannot mean any tooth.

    * The 'e' at the end of TaHuune is pronounced like the 'e' in egg. I guess some words in Palestinian Arabic end with this 'e' sound instead of the 'a' sound of fusHa. Is that right, Elroy?
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Good stuff, Josh. Here are my answers and comments:

    Josh Adkins said:
    I went ahead and bought that dictionary (The Olive Tree) I was telling you about, Elroy, which is a dictionary of Palestinian Arabic and I can confirm that that TaHuuna (They transliterate as TaHuune*), or just TaHuun, is the word used for molar. But the other definition is just given as mill or millstone. For watermill it lists TaHuunet mayy.

    Well, "mill" includes "windmill" doesn't it? :)
    To be more specific you could say "Ta7uunet hawa" but if the context is clear most people would just say "Ta7uune."

    (By the way, I have never heard "Ta7uun"; it sounds weird to me.)


    There are also some proverbs listed under it. You can confirm these, Elroy.

    kull iT-Turo2 bitwaddi 3a-T-TaHuune
    All roads lead to Rome.
    Literally: All roads lead to the mill.

    been Hajareen iT-TaHuune
    Between a rock and a hard place; between the Devil and the deep blue sea
    Literally: Between the two millstones.

    I'm actually not personally familiar with either of these quotes but they sound ok. :) I can check with my parents for confirmation.

    Surprisingly the word Dirs was not in there. I say surprisingly because I thought that word was common throughout the dialects.

    As I said above, we don't use it. We do, however, understand it - to mean all teeth, which is probably a hasty generalization because we don't use that word.

    I'm pretty sure that Dirs, in Egyptian Arabic, is only molar. it cannot mean any tooth.

    That seems to be what Cherine said as well. Hopefully Syrians and/or Lebanese people can come along and confirm whether it means any tooth or just molar in their dialects.

    * The 'e' at the end of TaHuune is pronounced like the 'e' in egg. I guess some words in Palestinian Arabic end with this 'e' sound instead of an 'a' sound of fusHa. Is that right, Elroy?

    Absolutely. In fact, I'd say this occurs in more than just some words - but I couldn't give you a statistical figure. For example, we say "madrase" and "ta3baane" but "shajara" and "mabSuuta."

    In some Palestinian dialects, the "a" is preserved, while in others (particularly the Galilean dialects) the sound is closer to an "i" sound. However, in "standard Palestinian" (if there is such a thing :D ) the words in question (like "madrase") are to be pronounced with an "e."

    You could also say that the "e" pronunciation sounds neutral, because "madrasa" evokes images of falla7iin (which I don't mean derogatorily) while "madrasi" reminds one of "Galilean Arabs" (like me). In Jerusalem and most other places, people say "madrase" and that's what I say because although I'm Galilean I have lived in the Jerusalem area my whole life. Anyway, "madrase" would not really betray one's origin.
     

    ayed

    Senior Member
    Arabic(Saudi)
    Josh Adkins said:
    Rather than disrupt Elroy's thread in the Other Languages Forum I figured I would open this up here.


    I was thinking the same thing. I always thought it was the more common word for molar anyway.

    According to the Hans Wehr the other word for molar is طاحنة (TaaHina) while grinder or windmill is طاحون or طاحونة with windmill being more particularized as طاحونة الهواء (TaaHuunat al-hawaa').

    I see where Elroy is coming from though because they both come from the same root as they have similar functions.
    As far as I often hear:


    Molars

    ج. طواحن/أرحاء
    م.طاحنة/رحي
    ------------------------------------------
    premolars
    ج.ضواحك
    م. ضاحكة
    مثال:
    افترّ عن ضواحكه
    Iftarra an dhawahikih
    He smiled
    -------------------------------------------
    Canines
    ج.أنياب
    م.ناب
    ------------------------------------------
    Milk teeth
    ج.أسنان لبنية
    م.سن لبنية
    -----------------------------------------
    Permanent teeth
    ج.أسنان مستديمة
    م.سن مستديم
    ----------------------------------------------------
    incisors
    ج.قواطع
    م.قاطعة

     
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