Montenegrin language? (BCS)

dell22

New Member
Interesting how much this forum has developed since i last looked at it. With regards to current events i'm personally wondering if the formation of a Montenegrin language will occur. Any comments?
 
  • Maja

    Senior Member
    Serbian, Serbia
    It wouldn't surprise me... as some of the languages created lately were more of "political" nature rather then "linguistic" one, everything is possible!
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    Hi,
    I don't think there is a very strong tendency as yet, from what I read and hear, but we cannot know what will be in ten years. It seems that the overwhelming majority of Montenegrins calls their language still "Serbian", including pro-independence people.
     

    dell22

    New Member
    I looked at Wikipedia and found alot of weird information regarding the languages of Ex-YU republics. The site seems to be indicating a movement towards yet another language and is somewhat obsessive with trying to outline the differences of the languages. Might want to take a look and see if there is anything interesting.
     

    GoranBcn

    Senior Member
    Catalan, Spanish, Croatian/Serbian
    I've read that in "Montenegrin language" there will be three new letters: ś, ź, and 3. Do you know anything about it?

    Čitao sam da će u "Crnogorskom jeziku" biti tri nova slova: ś, ź, and 3. Znate li nešto o tome?

    Goran
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    I've read that too. I guess you need them to write śutra, śćeti and groźđe ;). 3 is just ordinary dz (Ѕ, ѕ in Cyrillic, I don't know where you'd need it though) and it is already present in Serbian cyrillic keyboards (in the place of Latin Y,y).

    Čitao sam i ja. Pretpostavljam da je potrebno da bi se pisalo
    śutra, śćeti i groźđe ;). 3 je obinčno "dz" (Ѕ, ѕ на ћирилци, иако не знам гдје (или је гђе?) би требало, и већ постоји на ћириличној тастатури, на мјесту latiničnoga Y,y).
     

    GoranBcn

    Senior Member
    Catalan, Spanish, Croatian/Serbian
    I've read that too. I guess you need it to write śutra ;). 3 is just ordinary dz (Ѕ, ѕ in Cyrillic, I don't know where you'd need it though) and it is already present in Serbian cyrillic keyboards (in the place of Latin Y,y).

    Čitao sam i ja. Pretpostavljam da je potrebno da bi se pisalo
    śutra ;). 3 je obinčno "dz" (Ѕ, ѕ на ћирилци, иако незнам гдје (или је гђе?) би требало, и већ постоји на ћириличној тастатури, на мјесту latiničnoga Y,y).

    And what about ź? In what words is it used?

    A što je sa ź? :) U kojim riječima se to koristi?
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    Sorry, I editet to late аnd added an example.

    Извини/oprosti, касно сам прерадио и додао примјер.
     

    GoranBcn

    Senior Member
    Catalan, Spanish, Croatian/Serbian
    ;). 3 je obinčno "dz" (Ѕ, ѕ на ћирилци, иако не знам гдје (или је гђе?) би требало, и већ постоји на ћириличној тастатури, на мјесту latiničnoga Y,y).

    In Macedonian language there are 31 letters, and 3 is one of them. :) It has the same pronunciationa as DZ.

    U makedonskom jeziku ima 31 slovo, i
    3 je jedno od njih. Ima isti izgovor kao DZ.
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    Anyway, that woul just be filling up the holes of the standard paradigm. Polish is much more logical here.

    Usput, samo je u pitanju dopuna rupa standardne paradigme. Poljski je puno logičniji u tome.

    c:ć:č
    ?:đ:dž
    s:?:š
    z:?:ž
     

    !netko!

    Member
    Croatian, Croatia
    I don't really know anything about the language spoken in Montenegro. Which special features does it have? Differences from Serbian? ekavica/ijekavica? Are there any more words with dz - I've never heard of that before?
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    Ijekavica, the purest you get;) , and they do iotation a bit over the top, it is also executed in words where the "j" comes from "jat", so it's ćerati for tjerati, gđe for gdje, Šćepan (or now maybe śćepan) for Stjepan, etc. (and my example śćeti for htjeti). There are two major dialect areas, the northwest is basically Eastern Hercegovinian, meaning rather close to the standard in the phonetic system and accentuation, while the southeast is zetsko narječje and is somewhat different (I think they don't have any pitch accents there).
     

    Chrnogorec jezikoslovec

    New Member
    Montenegrin version of Stokavian,Montenegro
    Hi guys!I just joined this forum and noticed this debate that you were having about the Montenegrin language,so I thought that I as a Montenegrin should say something on this topic,and help you get a better image of it.On my oppinion,this is a very disputable topic due to many contradictory facts.If we should try to define the borders in which this version of the Shtokavian dialect is spoken,according to me,those would be the southern and central parts of Montenegro,that is the area of the zetsko narjecje(the towns of Podgorica,Cetinje,Bar,Budva,Kotor,Perast,Danilovgrad,Spuz),that were parts of the medievil Montenegrin states of the Vojislavljevic,Balshic and Crnojevic dynasties,but not the northern or northwestern parts of Montenegro,or the western part of Boka Kotorska(Herceg Novi and Risan),which became parts of Montenegro in its newer history and were originally parts of the medievil states of Serbia and Herzegovina and where the east Herzegovian dialect is predominantly spoken. As for its features that make it different from standard Serbian,I wouldn't include in them those three ''additional'' phonemes sj,zj, and dz and the ''jotovanje'' of d and t in words like djevojka,tjerati etc. ,because these phonemes are not authentic and they are just a local feature of the Montenegrin speech and not a real difference from Serbian.Let me try to explain this.In words like sjekira,zjenica,sjesti, the Montenegrins in common speech pronounce these ''special phonemes'',but ethymologically speaking sj, and zj never made separate phonemes in these words because these they contained the Old Slavic phoneme ''jat'' that first developed into ije/je in the Ijekavian dialect,and then gradually started to be pronounced as one sound with s and z in the vulgar(''puchki") Montenegrin speech.So,originally,the sj and zj never were separate phonemes in these words and were "jotted'' just because it was easier for the Montenegrins to pronounce it that way.A simillar case is with the words like djevojka,djeca,tjerati,where the d and t form with j the sounds ''dj'' and ''tj'',which is also irregular and unlogical.Namely,in the Sthokavian dialect the phonemes ''dj'' and ''tj'' developed out of the Proto Slavic phonemes d' and t' ,which also developed into zhd and sht in Old Church Slavonic and Bulgarian,and j and ch in Slovene.So ,for example, you could compare the Serbian and Croatian word medja(fence) with the Bulgarian mezhda and the Slovene word meja,and also the Shtokavian sv(ij)etja(candle) with the Old Slavic svjashta and the Slovenian svecha.So,basically the pronounciation of the phonemes ''tj'' and ''dj'' in words like tjerati,djevojka or htjeti is not correct because here those phonemes didn't develope from the Proto Slavic t' and d',but from t and d which joined with the j from the jat_derived ''je'' ,to form these phonemes in the Montenegrin speech.That means that this again just a local feature of the Montenegrin pronounciation which doesn't make the Montenegrin version of the Shtokavian dialect essencially different from Serbian.This is something that the lingusts, who are working on the standardisation of the Montenegrin language should have in mind,before they make such a foolish mistake and accept these dialectical features as a standard.Unfortunatelly,right now,they are not aware of what a damage this would do to the Montenegrin language,and how it would unnaturally drift it apart from the languages in Serbia,Croatia, and Bosnia.
     
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