more with rancor rather rue

< Previous | Next >

sleepymarmot

Senior Member
Italy - Italian
Hello everybody.
I've got some troubles in understanding this sentence.

The failure of idealism is presented here, as it is in the previous film, more with rancor rather rue.

I haven't watched the movie in question, nor the previous, so I can't infer the meaning.

Could rather, in this sentence, be replaced with better still?
Or the meaning could be instead rather than?

Thanks in advance
Marmot
 
  • MichaelW

    Senior Member
    English (British)
    It should be "more with rancour than rue", "rancour rather rue" is wrong.

    "More with rancour rather than rue" is also wrong, "more" is setting up the contrast so "rather than" (which also sets up a contrast) is redundant.

    "With rancour rather than rue" would work, but is weaker than "...more with rancour than rue".
     
    Last edited:

    sleepymarmot

    Senior Member
    Italy - Italian
    Thank you Michael, but the sentence that I've found is written in this way. Do you think your proposal (...with rancour rather than rue) is the only way to read this sentence? I don't want to misunderstand the meaning.
     
    Last edited:

    MichaelW

    Senior Member
    English (British)
    ? The "than" is in the sentence, a "with" is being understood, "more with rancour than with rue".
     

    sleepymarmot

    Senior Member
    Italy - Italian
    ? The "than" is in the sentence, a "with" is being understood, "more with rancour than with rue".
    Sorry, Michael. I don't understand your last intervention...:confused:
    The sentence in the original text is:
    The failure of idealism is presented here, as it is in the previous film, more with rancor rather rue. So than is not in the original sentence.
     

    MichaelW

    Senior Member
    English (British)
    I see, I didn't understand your post #3 hence my "?".

    It should be "rather than" not "rather", you are right, but "more with rancour rather than rue" is wrong or at least clumsy.

    You could say "more with rancour rather than with rue" but that is still clumsy, because both "more with..." and "rather than with..." are setting up contrasts and there is only one contrast, "rancour" v. "rue".
     

    sleepymarmot

    Senior Member
    Italy - Italian
    Sorry if I pester you with thousands of questions! This is the last one, I promise!
    You're very patient with me. :eek:
    I need to understand it and translate it in Italian, not to correct it in English.
    On the basis that the original sentence is this one (The failure of idealism is presented here, as it is in the previous film, more with rancor rather rue), although it's clumsy, how do you interpret it?
     

    Elwintee

    Senior Member
    England English
    Sorry if I pester you with thousands of questions! This is the last one, I promise!
    You're very patient with me. :eek:
    I need to understand it and translate it in Italian, not to correct it in English.
    On the basis that the original sentence is this one (The failure of idealism is presented here, as it is in the previous film, more with rancor rather rue), although it's clumsy, how do you interpret it?
    If I may butt in, Sleepymarmot:
    'more with rancour rather rue' is clearly a mistake (typing followed by failed copy-editing, presumably, as no native writer would commit such an error).
    The basic meaning must be:
    The failure of idealism is presented ... with rancour and not with / instead of rue.
     

    MichaelW

    Senior Member
    English (British)
    You could make it a comparison, "presented here [...] with more rancour than rue", I am sure "with more X than Y" will translate into Italian. So the failure of idealism is presented with some rue, but with more rancour.

    I am not sure why "more with X than Y" doesn't translate, is is just an inversion of the two words.

    with rancour and not with / instead of rue
    I'm not sure about this, the comparison is more/less rather than with/without.
     
    Last edited:

    sleepymarmot

    Senior Member
    Italy - Italian
    You could make it a comparison, "presented here [...] with more rancour than rue", I am sure "with more X than Y" will translate into Italian. So the failure of idealism is presented with some rue, but with more rancour.
    Thank you VERY MUCH, Michael :) ! (And thank you too Elwintee for you suggestion.)
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top