Moving to find work

eno2

Senior Member
Dutch-Flemish
Hello,

<Moving to find work would have meant leaving her dear ones.>

I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.

The translation to Greek goes like this: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.

I can't understand how this της προκειμένου works. What is της προκειμένου ?

I would have said:
Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
τους αγαπημένους της
 
  • velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    Η μετακόμισή της - Her moving/removal
    προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά - in order to find work
    θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα. - would mean leaving her loved ones behind.
     

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    Greek
    I would have said:
    Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
    τους αγαπημένους της
    Yes, here προκειμένου να = για να

    A colloquial way to express this could be "Το να μετακομίσει (not μετακομίζοντας) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει πίσω τους αγαπημένους της", which means that you were close enough ;), but still I prefer velisarius' sentence!
     
    Last edited:

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    That's kind of you, Perseus, but it wasn't my sentence. :)

    I think eno found it here:
    πρόσωπα - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com.

    προκειμένου is an odd little word because (to an English speaker) it has several different meanings.

    Here are some examples from the old William Crighton Greek-English Dictionary (The original uses the older, polytonic spelling) :

    Προκειμένου να ζημιωθείς, αποσύρω την πρότασίν μου.
    Rather than see you suffer a loss, I withdraw my suggestion.

    Προκειμένου να μετοικήσω, επώλησα μερικά εκ των επίπλων μου.
    Since I was to move to another house, I sold some of my furniture.


    But perhaps it deserves a thread of its own, eno.
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    That's already 3 different uses of Προκειμένου να , 'rather than, since, to'.
    To understand it(s use a little) better: Where does that word come from? What's it related to?
    Ah, now I remember: πρόκειται να, with complex uses...
     
    Last edited:

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    Greek
    That's already 3 different uses of Προκειμένου να , 'rather than, since, to'.
    To understand it(s use a little) better: Where does that word come from? What's it related to?
    Τhe impersonal verb "πρόκειται" means "be about to", "shall, will be about".
    Example: She is about to become the youngest scientist to win the Nobel Prize./Πρόκειται να γίνει η νεώτερη επιστήμονας που θα κερδίσει το Βραβείο Νόμπελ.
    προκειται - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com


    In terms of grammar, "προκειμένου" is a participle of the classical verb "πρόκειμαι", in the genitive singular (nominative: προκείμενος).
    [...]προκειμένου < προκείμενος < πρόκειμαι < πρό + κεῖμαι
    προκειμένου - Βικιλεξικό

    "προκειμένου να" is used as a causal or final conjunction.
     
    Last edited:

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    Cross posted, while editing #8. I was indeed thinking of πρόκειταi now.
    I read the definition and examples now of πρόκειταi WR
    Interesting to me is


    "Thou shalt not kill"
    because I remembered : πρόκειται να as a kind of command or something 'that should happen'
     
    Last edited:

    Librarian44

    Member
    Greek
    No, eno2. Πρόκειται να has a sense of imminence not of command. It comes from πρόκειμαι (as Perseas already said), which means "lie ahead or before/in front of". Thou shalt not kill can only be translated: "Ου φονεύσεις" (as translated from Hebrew in the 3rd c. BC)
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Πρόκειται (impersonal verb, only used in the present and imperfect tense(επρόκειτο)) has two different uses:
    1) with για+accusative or περί+genitive it means the same thing as Spanish 'se trata de' or Dutch 'het gaat over'. Πρόκειται για πολιτικό ζήτημα = This is a question of politics. Περί τίνος πρόκειται; = What is it all about?
    2) with να+subjunctive it is another way of expressing futurity. Πρόκειται (επρόκειτο) να γίνουν εκλογές στις 7 Ιουλίου = Elections are (were) to be held on July 7.
    Προκειμένου is historically a participle absolute of πρόκειται, but in addition to the meaning derived from πρόκειται (1)
    [προκειμένου για θέματα/ περί θεμάτων γραμματικής... = concerning matters of grammar...]
    it also has two specific and almost contrary uses in moderen Greek:
    2a) προκειμένου να is a polysyllabic equivalent of για να = in order to: Προκειμένου να ετοιμαστεί για τη δίκη, μελέτησε τη σχετική νομολογία = To prepare for the trial, he studied the relevant jurisprudence.
    2b) but it can also mean "faced with the unpleasant prospect of", "rather than": Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε = Faced with having to stand trial, he disappeared.
     

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    2a) προκειμένου να is a polysyllabic equivalent of για να = in order to: Προκειμένου να ετοιμαστεί για τη δίκη, μελέτησε τη σχετική νομολογία = To prepare for the trial, he studied the relevant jurisprudence.
    2b) but it can also mean "faced with the unpleasant prospect of", "rather than": Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε = Faced with having to stand trial, he disappeared.
    And here's where our foreign friends regret they ever dealt with Greek:
    According to Αγγελος' (perfectly correct) remarks the phrase
    "Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2b)
    has exactly the same meaning with the phrase
    "Προκειμένου να μην δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2a)!
     

    διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    "Προκειμένου να δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2b)
    has exactly the same meaning with the phrase
    "Προκειμένου να μην δικαστεί, εξαφανίστηκε" (meaning 2a)!
    It seems that the reader must guess whether the positive or the negative expression is the goal of the action.
     

    Παντελής

    Banned
    Greek
    Hello,

    <Moving to find work would have meant leaving her dear ones.>

    I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.

    The translation to Greek goes like this: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.

    I can't understand how this της προκειμένου works. What is της προκειμένου ?

    I would have said:
    Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
    τους αγαπημένους της
    Translation Moving to find work = "κινείται για να βρει δουλειά" Not necessarily leaving anyone behind, (looking around moving energetically in order to find a work (for one to find work should be moving around from from place to place looking
     

    Παντελής

    Banned
    Greek
    Hello,

    <Moving to find work would have meant leaving her dear ones.>

    I found the sentence in WR looking for an unusual meaning of πρόσωπα.

    The translation to Greek goes like this: Η μετακόμισή της προκειμένου να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε ότι έπρεπε να αφήσει πίσω τα αγαπημένα της πρόσωπα.

    I can't understand how this της προκειμένου works. What is της προκειμένου ?

    I would have said:
    Μετακομίζοντας (?) για να βρει δουλειά θα σήμαινε να αφήσει
    τους αγαπημένους της
    μετακόμιση = removal, Κινείται = Moving
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    Moving is ambiguous. The exact expression is 'moving house'.
    I must say I'm also prone to use 'move'/moving, for short, instead of 'moving house', which makes it unequivocal. In any case, my consultation was s about 'moving house'.
     
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