MSA/All dialects: Come! (imperative)

Tajabone

Senior Member
French, Berber (Kabyle), Arabic (classical and dialectal)
Greetings,

Do you frequently come across these imperative forms in classical Arabic (or even in MSA) ?

1/ جئْ

2/ إيت

Both verbs are variants of the verb "to come".

Thanks
 
  • MeiLing

    Member
    Arabic
    Yes, Tajabone.

    Both forms are used in standard Arabic, though I think the right form of the the second verb is ِائت , not ايتِ, as in {وإذ نادى ربك موسى أن ائـْت القوم الظالمين} [Holy Quran, 26:10] and {وقالوا يا صالح ائـتـنا بما تعدنا إن كنت من المرسلين} [Holy Quran, 7:77]

    However, the second hamza (الهمزة على نبرة ئـــ ) in the verb ائـتِ is replaced by ي in the infinitive form: إيـتـاء, as in إيـتـاء الزكاة.
     

    Tajabone

    Senior Member
    French, Berber (Kabyle), Arabic (classical and dialectal)
    Thanks MeilLing. It's true that the verb (or the root) أتي is not an easy one. The more you inquire into classical Arabic corpora, the more you feel lost :)

    Actually, the verb is polysemic and even Tafasiirs stop to that occurrence in order to give a clearer explanation. Lesan Al-'Arab is also prolix about it (as usual, I may say).

    And the hamza-ya problem is a really an exciting phonological and philological issue.

    We are more familiar with imperatives using plural personal pronouns in this case (which is reflected in the examples that you've mentioned).

    However, I was rather talking about the specific case dealing with "you" (second personal pronoun).
    And by the way, the two examples I gave ( جئْ and إيت ) are mentioned in Scheindlin's "201 Arabic Verbs".
    The author also added (something that I know but I do almost never see) the case of ت as an imperative form (for "you").

    Instinctively, we are more used - at least through MSA - to encounter تعال معي = come with me.

    So my question was to which extent all of us (both learners and natives) are familiar with the two first imperative forms I mentioned in my first post.

    I thank you again, MeiLing, for your kind suggestions :)

    Tajabone
     

    Nikola

    Senior Member
    English - American
    Tajabone, I want to add that in Tunsian spoken I have heard إجى instead of تعال .
     

    Tajabone

    Senior Member
    French, Berber (Kabyle), Arabic (classical and dialectal)
    True, Nikola. My neighbours in the west of my country (which corresponds to Morocco) say Ajyni (أجني ) = come to me. The expression is repeated in many popular songs. We also say in spoken Arabic (Algerian center) Arwaah (أرواح) = come (here).
     

    Tariq_Ibn_zyad

    Senior Member
    French,arabic(moroccan,algerian)
    Really?? because we (in Eastern Morocco,Algerian border) use Arwaa7 too instead of Aji,so I'm surprised western Algerians use Aji
     

    Tajabone

    Senior Member
    French, Berber (Kabyle), Arabic (classical and dialectal)
    Salut Tariq,

    ça fait plaisir de te revoir ;)

    Some of the people use Aji, in the west of Algeria. To which extent, I can't tell exactly. And in Morocco, in which area "Aji" is used the most ?

    Fi-lamaan, l'aaziz ;)
     

    Tariq_Ibn_zyad

    Senior Member
    French,arabic(moroccan,algerian)
    Aji is used everywhere.
    But in my Region(Algerian border),Arwaa7 is much more frequent and is used nowhere else in Morocco.
    What's funny is that most Algerians like you from the center or the east consider your western populations speak Moroccan,while all Moroccans say our eastern speakers speak Algerian.Personnaly I think the second one would be more correct:)
     

    smooha

    Member
    Hebrew/English/USA
    As far as I know, 'Aji' (أجي) in Saudi Arabia is equivalent to 'I come'. It is not used as an imperative!
    You're right, MeiLing, but you have to remember that vowels tend to morph quite dramatically as you move west across North Africa, so it might help to consider it a mutation of إجي, as per other verbs (إشرب, إفتح).


    To confuse you further (couldn't resist), while the Jewish population of Baghdad (pre-1952) tended to say "ta3al" as in Levantine/Egyptian dialects, the Muslims use the phrase "ta3al jaay," which to me sounds strikingly redundant (Come coming[?]).
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    To confuse you further (couldn't resist), while the Jewish population of Baghdad (pre-1952) tended to say "ta3al" as in Levantine/Egyptian dialects, the Muslims use the phrase "ta3al jaay," which to me sounds strikingly redundant (Come coming[?]).
    We say this in Palestinian Arabic, especially in the Galilee. It's used for emphasis.

    You're right that it is redundant if considered literally (I had never thought about it until now!), but "jaay" is just a way to make the command more forceful. It is used with other verbs as well, "haat jaay" for example.
     

    smooha

    Member
    Hebrew/English/USA
    Thanks, Elroy. Illuminating. Is it limited to a certain type of verbs (i.e. could one conceivably say buus/buusini jaay ;) ?)
     

    Abu Bishr

    Senior Member
    Afrikaans, South Africa
    Yes, Tajabone.

    Both forms are used in standard Arabic, though I think the right form of the the second verb is ِائت , not ايتِ, as in {وإذ نادى ربك موسى أن ائـْت القوم الظالمين} [Holy Quran, 26:10] and {وقالوا يا صالح ائـتـنا بما تعدنا إن كنت من المرسلين} [Holy Quran, 7:77]

    However, the second hamza (الهمزة على نبرة ئـــ ) in the verb ائـتِ is replaced by ي in the infinitive form: إيـتـاء, as in إيـتـاء الزكاة.
    Just a quick point on the rule of the hamzah(s) here. When two hamzahs meet and the second one is unvowelled it is always going to change into a Harf Madd. With regard to (ايْتِ) , two hamzahs meet when you commence the pronunciation of the verb. However, when it occurs in the middle of speech, the first of the two hamzahs is dropped (because it is a hamzah waSl), thus creating a situation where there is only one hamzah and therefore there is no need to change it into a Harf Madd. So, whenever you begin with اِيْتِ you change the secomd hamzah into a Yaa, and when you read the preceeding word into it, you don't pronounce the first hamzah (as it is dropped), and thus you don't change the second into a Yaa (because two hamzahs are not meeting).

    As for the infinitive form of (ايت) it is إِتْيَان and not إيتاء . The latter is the infinitive of آتى (which is the IV form of أتَى ).
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Thanks, Elroy. Illuminating. Is it limited to a certain type of verbs (i.e. could one conceivably say buus/buusiini jaay ;) ?)
    No, you could not say that, so yes, it is limited to certain verbs. In fact, at the moment I can't think of any other verbs with which it is used besides the two already mentioned.

    (Regarding the correction I made: When a pronoun suffix is added to the feminine imperative, the "i" ending becomes long and any long vowels become short because the syllable with "ii" is stressed and in Arabic long vowels cannot be unstressed. So "Kiss" is "buusi" but "Kiss me" is "busiini." "Visit" is "zuuri" but "visit us" is "zuriina.")
     

    Tajabone

    Senior Member
    French, Berber (Kabyle), Arabic (classical and dialectal)
    Thank you all. I deduce that you do not come across the two latter imperative forms very often ;)
     

    jmt356

    Senior Member
    [Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
    Are the following the correct conjugations for the imperative of “to come”:

    MSA:
    إيتِ
    إيتي
    إيتوا

    Syrian dialect:
    تعال
    تعالي
    تعالوا

    Thank you
     

    jmt356

    Senior Member
    The verb على means to exalt/lift, no?
    Is the form VI of the verb على as follows:
    تعالى?
    Is the third person singular masculine perfect (past) conjugation: تعالى?

    Actually, 501 Arabic Verbs says the root is علو (which on its own has no meaning as a verb to my knowledge).

    Also, the imperative masculine singular is تعال, so it does not follow the normal pattern for Form VI, which is تفاعل (which translates تعالى for the verb تعالى - the same as the third person singular masculine past).
     
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    Finland

    Senior Member
    finnois
    Hello!
    Also, the imperative masculine singular is تعال, so it does not follow the normal pattern for Form VI, which is تفاعل (which translates تعالى for the verb تعالى - the same as the third person singular masculine past).
    But it does follow the normal pattern. The ending of an imperative form is always formed like the jussive. So تعال follows the rules just like تفاعل does.

    HTH
    S
     

    jmt356

    Senior Member
    I'm not sure what the jussive is, but I know that all three letters of the root تفاعل show up in its imperative form (تفاعل) but not all three letter of the root تعالى show up in its imperative form (تعال).
     

    AndyRoo

    Senior Member
    English
    The fully vocalised form is تَعَالَ ta`aala with the fatha at the end being the manifestation of the ى in the jussive.
     

    jmt356

    Senior Member
    Thank you for the clarification.
    Form VI, with the حركات, is actually تَفَاعَلْ, ending with a سكون, so I can see that the بتحة in تعالَ takes the place of the ى.
     
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    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    ائت - ائتي - ائتوا in MSA (not ايت - ايتي - ايتوا)
    تعال is used in Egyptian, and in MSA.
    Moroccans say جي but I don't know how they do the plural (جو?)...
     

    Schem

    Senior Member
    Najdi Arabic
    ائت - ائتي - ائتوا in MSA (not ايت - ايتي - ايتوا)
    تعال is used in Egyptian, and in MSA.
    Moroccans say جي but I don't know how they do the plural (جو?)...
    تعال predominates here too while ايت is sometimes used by older generations.
     

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    Last edited by a moderator:

    jawad-dawdi

    Senior Member
    moroccan arabic
    ائت - ائتي - ائتوا in MSA (not ايت - ايتي - ايتوا)
    تعال is used in Egyptian, and in MSA.
    Moroccans say جي but I don't know how they do the plural (جو?)...
    in Morocco we say
    أجي = تعالى
    أجي = تعالي
    أجيوْ = تعالوْ
    we say also (in hilali dialect)
    تْعالى = تعالى
    تْعالِي = تعاليْ
    تْعالو = تعالوْ
     

    6aalib

    Senior Member
    English (US)
    [Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
    I am studying the verbs 'to come' since they are very common
    The two that I know are:
    اتى
    جاء
    1. Can someone please give me the imperative and negative imperative for جاء ?
    It is irregular verb, so I am not sure how to derive it (I already have the imperative and negative imperative for اتى)

    2. People often say 'ta3aala' تعال which I know is supposed to be imperative for 'to come'. Is this from another verb for 'to come', or is it from a dialect (3aamiiya)?

    SHUKRAN :)
     

    barkoosh

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Lebanon
    The imperative of جاء is جِئْ (mas. sing.), جٍيئي (fem. sing.). The negative imperative is لا تَجِئ (mas. sing), لا تَجِيئي (fem. sing).

    The imperative تعالَ is widely used for "come" in MSA and dialects, much more often than جئ and ايتِ/ائتِ. The form تعالَ means originally "come up", "ascend" (from the verb تعالى = to come up). However, it became commonly used for just "come".
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    تعالَ is widely used (in MSA and dialects, except in Moroccan which use "aji" and Algerian which use "arwa7/adji").
    For the negation, you can say "لا تجي" (at least, that's how I say in 7ejazi dialect)
     

    6aalib

    Senior Member
    English (US)
    Hamza: yes I notice that the imperative ta3aala is used a lot

    barkoosh: shukran JAZEEEELAN
     
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    eastren

    Banned
    Rajasthani
    TAALA تعال is a verb in standard Arabib which means. come here or come to here (in high expression). while the other جئ is used for normal expression. and it is so different in other dialects
     

    Schem

    Senior Member
    Najdi Arabic
    [Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
    Hi all,

    In my regional dialect, two main words are used for this meaning: the more common تعال (ta3āl) and the somewhat antiquated ايت (īt). The latter is the only vestige remaining of the verb أتى. Is this word used in your dialect? If not, which are used?

    Thank you
     

    Wadi Hanifa

    Senior Member
    Arabic
    and the somewhat antiquated ايت (īt). The latter is the only vestige remaining of the verb أتى. Is this word used in your dialect? If not, which are used?
    That's interesting. I've only ever heard it in Nabati poetry.

    I believe it's used in Yemeni and southern Hejazi dialects.
     

    wriight

    Senior Member
    English (US) / Arabic (Lebanon)
    Wow, the use of ايت is fantastic. In Lebanon, the regular imperative conjugation would be اجي (eji/eje, m/f), but instead the suppletive forms تع/تعا (ta3(a), m) and تعي (ta3i/te3i/ta3e/te3e, f) are used.
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    In Morocco, there is:
    آجي (traditionally in pre hilalian dialects)
    تعالى (hilalian dialects and in some urban dialects)

    Although آجي seems to have gained the upper hand amongst a big part of the population to the point some urban people ignore that تعالى is also used in Morocco. In the South, only تعالى is used.
     

    fenakhay

    Member
    French (France) / Arabic (Morocco)
    In Morocco, there is:
    آجي (traditionally in pre hilalian dialects)
    تعالى (hilalian dialects and in some urban dialects)

    Although آجي seems to have gained the upper hand amongst a big part of the population to the point some urban people ignore that تعالى is also used in Morocco. In the South, only تعالى is used.
    There is also قرّب (qarreb) for specifically to come closer.

    For example :
    • Come here = قرب لهنا (qarreb la-hna)
     
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