sirithvagorien
Member
Danish
Hi all. I've been following the forums for quite some time without posting so far. A lot of interesting threads in here. I've got a question I keep being in doubt about and keep coming back to, so I thought I'd ask in here.
My question has to do with defective active participles (أسماء الفاعل الناقصة) with added/suffixed pronouns. I'll try to make it clear what I mean.
When the possessive pronoun (الضمير المتصل) is attached to the defective active participle, is there any way of distinguishing whether the active participle/the noun is singular or plural (assuming here that the plural of the participle in question is sound male جمع سالم مذكر)?
Let's use محامٍ (muHaamin) (lawyer) as an example. The word has kasra nunation when indefinite nominative and genitive. When adding a possessive pronoun, however, the word becomes definite and the kasra nunation becomes a yaa', i.e. محامي, and we're ready to add the pronoun suffix. If I want to say "my lawyer", then, wouldn't that then be محاميَّ (muHaamiyya)? (Or is it muHaamiiya?
But then how do I distinguish "my lawyer" from the plural "my lawyers"? Because if we were to take the plural محامين/محامون which has a sound mascular plural (-uun in nominative and -iin in accusative and genitive), and the nuun is elided when a pronoun suffix is attached, thus becoming محامو/محامي (muHaamuu/muHaamii), and we add the first person singular pronoun which is always iyya ـيَّ when attached to a sound male plural (regardless of the case), wouldn't that become the same, i.e. محامون/محامين (lawyers) become محاميَّ (muHaamiyya) (my lawyers)?
(for comparison, just as "my teachers" would become معلمِيَّ mu'allimiyya, regardless of case)
Have I made a mistake in one of them/misunderstood how to use the possessive pronoun with defective active participles, or will both "my lawyer" and "my lawyers" both become محاميَّ muHaamiyya?
The dilemma (in case I haven't misunderstood something/made a mistake in all the above) is also present when adding any of the other pronouns. Let's use -hum/-him هُمْ/هِمْ (their) as an example.
The way I see it, "their lawyer" (one lawyer) would be محامِيهم (muHaamiihim) (at least in the nominative and the genitive, and probably محامِيَهُم muHaamiyahum in the accusative case, not sure about that, though?).
But wouldn't it also be the same with "their lawyers" (plural) in the sound plural accusative and genitive case, i.e. it goes from محامين muHaamiin to (disappearance of nuun) محامي muHaamii to (attachment of pronoun suffix) محاميهم muHaamiihim? Thus making it impossible (without proper context/pre-hand knowledge of course) to distinguish between "their lawyer" and "their lawyers"?
Sorry for the long post, I hope I'm making myself somewhat clear and concise. I don't have problems with the pronouns in general, but this specific case regarding the defective active participles and suffixed pronouns have been bugging me for a long while for some reason, so I hope somebody can help clear things up a bit. Maybe I've got something wrong, so I'm looking forward to any response. Thank you!
My question has to do with defective active participles (أسماء الفاعل الناقصة) with added/suffixed pronouns. I'll try to make it clear what I mean.
When the possessive pronoun (الضمير المتصل) is attached to the defective active participle, is there any way of distinguishing whether the active participle/the noun is singular or plural (assuming here that the plural of the participle in question is sound male جمع سالم مذكر)?
Let's use محامٍ (muHaamin) (lawyer) as an example. The word has kasra nunation when indefinite nominative and genitive. When adding a possessive pronoun, however, the word becomes definite and the kasra nunation becomes a yaa', i.e. محامي, and we're ready to add the pronoun suffix. If I want to say "my lawyer", then, wouldn't that then be محاميَّ (muHaamiyya)? (Or is it muHaamiiya?
But then how do I distinguish "my lawyer" from the plural "my lawyers"? Because if we were to take the plural محامين/محامون which has a sound mascular plural (-uun in nominative and -iin in accusative and genitive), and the nuun is elided when a pronoun suffix is attached, thus becoming محامو/محامي (muHaamuu/muHaamii), and we add the first person singular pronoun which is always iyya ـيَّ when attached to a sound male plural (regardless of the case), wouldn't that become the same, i.e. محامون/محامين (lawyers) become محاميَّ (muHaamiyya) (my lawyers)?
(for comparison, just as "my teachers" would become معلمِيَّ mu'allimiyya, regardless of case)
Have I made a mistake in one of them/misunderstood how to use the possessive pronoun with defective active participles, or will both "my lawyer" and "my lawyers" both become محاميَّ muHaamiyya?
The dilemma (in case I haven't misunderstood something/made a mistake in all the above) is also present when adding any of the other pronouns. Let's use -hum/-him هُمْ/هِمْ (their) as an example.
The way I see it, "their lawyer" (one lawyer) would be محامِيهم (muHaamiihim) (at least in the nominative and the genitive, and probably محامِيَهُم muHaamiyahum in the accusative case, not sure about that, though?).
But wouldn't it also be the same with "their lawyers" (plural) in the sound plural accusative and genitive case, i.e. it goes from محامين muHaamiin to (disappearance of nuun) محامي muHaamii to (attachment of pronoun suffix) محاميهم muHaamiihim? Thus making it impossible (without proper context/pre-hand knowledge of course) to distinguish between "their lawyer" and "their lawyers"?
Sorry for the long post, I hope I'm making myself somewhat clear and concise. I don't have problems with the pronouns in general, but this specific case regarding the defective active participles and suffixed pronouns have been bugging me for a long while for some reason, so I hope somebody can help clear things up a bit. Maybe I've got something wrong, so I'm looking forward to any response. Thank you!
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As you say, though, context will help, and admittedly I haven’t actually encountered any real problems with this specific construction in real-life texts, but on a theoretical level it’s been annoying me - until now.