My daughter's house

Illuminatus

Senior Member
India, Hindi, English, Marathi
I am pretty new to Arabic. To make the possessive, I know that we add tags at the end of a word.

Eg. Bint is daughter, so Binti is my daughter.

How does this system work for Possesives like My daughter's House?

My daughter will be binTi, her house will be beThai, but how do I say my daughter's house?
 
  • xebonyx

    Senior Member
    TR/AR/EN
    I am pretty new to Arabic. To make the possessive, I know that we add tags at the end of a word.

    Eg. Bint is daughter, so Binti is my daughter.

    How does this system work for Possesives like My daughter's House?

    My daughter will be binTi, her house will be beThai baytun (house) baytuhaa (her house), but how do I say my daughter's house?
    As you may know already, that structure is what's known as an Idaafa. For now, you just need to know that it's the possessive relationship between two nouns (in this case, house and daughter).

    You add the first person possessive suffix pronoun "ii"(my). So it would be baytu bintii ("house of my daughter") in raw form.

    بيت بنتي
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Although personally I would prefer بيت ابنتى , I don’t think بيت بنتى is wrong. Why would the latter be considered incorrect in MSA? To me the difference between the two is the same as would be in English when one as a FATHER says, “My daughter’s house” vs. “My girl’s house”. Normally the former is heard, but the latter in not wrong and can be / is used in certain situations.
     

    xebonyx

    Senior Member
    TR/AR/EN
    To me the difference between the two is the same as would be in English when one as a FATHER says, “My daughter’s house” vs. “My girl’s house”.
    Yep, that was the point I was trying to make earlier.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes, I know that English and Arabic don't have to be equivalent! Mostly they are not, but here I cannot see why in MSA,and in this context, the use of بنتى is wrong. Grammatically I just do not see the problem though I agree that ابنتى would be better. BTW, just as for English, in other languages too this "wrong" construction is also applicable. For example, in Urdu - one of my two native languages.
     

    clevermizo

    Senior Member
    English (USA), Spanish
    I'm inclined to believe that بنت is fine in standard Arabic. From معجم الغني:

    بِنْتٌ - ج: بناتٌ. [ب ن ي]. 1."رُزِقَ بِنْتاً" : الولَدُ الأنْثَى.
     

    Little_LIS

    Senior Member
    Arabic,Egypt
    I didn't say that it is not in MSA :)..Sorry, my explanation wasn't clear enough :)

    Girl= بنت (MSA)

    Daughter= ابنة (MSA)...

    My daughter= ابنتى (MSA)..

    My daughter...بنتى ammeyya not in MSA
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    I think so too, after looking at my grammar books and dictionaries like Hans Wehr, al-Mawrid etc. Of course بنت has a wider use, e.g. بنت الفكر = idea, بنت الكرمة = wine, بنت الشفة = word, and so on.
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    My daughter...بنتى ammeyya not in MSA
    I'm not sure I agree with that; but assuming bint strictly means girl in fus7a, it still means "my daughter" just as ولدي means "my son" and أولادي mean "my children".

    Anyway, here is why I don't agree:

    If you want to be strict, I would be more inclined to believe that بنت means daughter and then the term began to be used for girl in amiyya and then modern newspaper Arabic!; the word girl in fus7a has several terms depending on the age, a baby is رضيعة, an infant is طفلة a little girl is جارية (originally it's for little girl because she runs a lot compared to older women, then it was used for slave-girl which was originally أمة), a girl in adolsence is صبية then فتاة then finally إمرأة.

    Moreover, in people's names you use بنت as the feminine form of بن as in خولة بنت الأزور، هند بنت عتبة، أسماء بنت أبي بكر while ابنة is the feminine form of ابن. The taa's are obviously للتأنيث, even in the plural it is quite standard except that it's only two letters rather than the usual three (maybe because this word in particular is directly from Proto-Semetic): بن - بنون، بنين / بنت - بنات

    Finally, Lisaan al-Arab is very clear about this:
    البِنْت الابنة والجمع بناتٌ. وحُكِي رأيت بناتَك بالفتح أجروا تاءَهُ مجرى التاء الأصليَّة لثباتها وقفًا.

     
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