Norwegian: Er det mye sne der?

serbianfan

Senior Member
British English
I remember in west Oslo in the snowy winter of 68-69 hearing two children climbing over a fence and one said 'Er det mye sne der?' And I remember thinking about that, because in Blindern, where there were students from all over Norway, everybody said 'snø'. I wonder whether the grandchildren of those children from 68-69, if they live in west Oslo, still say 'sne', or whether 'sne' has more or less disappeared, just like De and Dem?
 
  • serbianfan

    Senior Member
    British English
    Hmm - no replies here. Maybe it was a difficult question - let me replace it with a more general one. Is spoken Riksmål still just as common (or uncommon) as it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago? I mean the variety of Norwegian that has practically no feminine nouns (possibly 'hytta' but definitely not 'boka' or 'veska'), no -a forms in the past tense (never 'jeg snakka', etc.). Here, I disregard forms like 'sne', 'efter' and 'sepe' (even back in 1968, many Riksmål speakers I was in contact with didn't use the latter two).

    I knew one Riksmål speaker who normally said 'døren', 'vesken', etc. but when he was drunk, he's say 'døra', 'veska' and so on o_O
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    As I wrote in another thread: this is a matter of dialects and sociolects, and different from the disappearance of politeness forms. I can only speak for Oslo, and the differences in spoken language between Western and Eastern Oslo is smaller than it used to be. There has been some convergence. There is still a difference, bot the more "extreme" versions (on both sides) are losing ground. So, in the case of "vestkantspråk", "boken", vesken" and "snakket" are widely used (and maybe also expanding eastwards), but I believe that "sne", "efter" and "nu" are on their way out. But this is just my hunch, I can't back it up with any systematic evidence.
     

    winenous

    Senior Member
    English - British
    In the 80s it seemed common to use some expressions that were practically Danish. There may have been others, but "i lige måde" was the main one, with the "g" and "d" clearly pronounced. This was probably mainly amongst Oslo people, but certainly not just the old and fussy. Is "i lige måde" still used?
     

    basslop

    Senior Member
    Norsk (Norwegian)
    I agree with raumar. I have the same hunch. I have lived all my life in an neighbouring municipality east of Oslo and I notice that my dialect, from the 60-ies, is broader than many of the youngr people's dialect. I.e. more use of two genders which was almost non-existing in the 60-ies.

    50-60 years further back, the dialect was even broader more like today's dialect further north/east.

    Comment to wineous. Yes, 'I lige måde' was more used before. I learned it from my parents, and used it myself until I realized that: Why am I saying this - it's Danish? I hardly hear younger people say this. Actually I think I got it from my mother. She come from Nortern Norway which was looked down on in Oslo so she probably picked up more 'vestkant-uttrykk' to be sure to sound more accteable than my father who come from the Mjøsa area where the dialect is closer to the Oslo dialect.
     
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    winenous

    Senior Member
    English - British
    Comment to wineous. Yes, 'I lige måde' was more used before. I learned it from my parents, and used it myself until I realized that: Why am I saying this - it's Danish? I hardly hear younger people say this. Actually I think I got it from my mother. She come from Nortern Norway which was looked down on in Oslo so she probably picked up more 'vestkant-uttrykk' to be sure to sound more accteable than my father who come from the Mjøsa area where the dialect is closer to the Oslo dialect.
    Thank you. I'm pleased you thought "Why am I saying this - it's Danish?". My thoughts echoed yours: "Why are you I saying this - it's Danish?". But then there were many things about Norwegian I found odd :)

    Presumably people still say "i like måte" though?
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    Well, I actually say "i lige måde" myself, even though it is a bit old-fashioned. I don't really think of it as a Danish expression, but as a set phrase.

    Presumably people still say "i like måte" though?
    No, not really. The phrase itself does not make much sense in modern Norwegian, except as a set phrase. So if you try to modernize the expression, you end up with something that is almost meaningless. If I should say anything else than "(takk) i lige måde", it would be "takk, det samme".

    Interestingly, Språkrådet says that the "i like måte" is the correct spelling. I did not know that, because I never use this expression in writing. Språkrådet also says that "i lige måde" nevertheless is the usual pronunciation:
    Uttrykket i like måte er et slags lydfossil. Det er ikke mange andre uttrykk folk skriver på norsk og uttaler på dansk.
    I like måte
     

    winenous

    Senior Member
    English - British
    "Uttrykket i like måte er et slags lydfossil. Det er ikke mange andre uttrykk folk skriver på norsk og uttaler på dansk"

    I realise these aren't your words @raumar, but it isn't really pronounced as Danish, is it? It is more the Norwegian pronunciation of a Danish spelling - one that according to Språkrådet should not be used. It probably makes perfect sense historically!
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    Yes, you are absolutely right. It is the Norwegian pronunciation of a Danish spelling. We pronounce the g in "lige" and d in "måde" clearly, while the Danes hardly pronounce their consonants.
     
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