Norwegian: Såpass

Discussion in 'Nordic Languages' started by sjiraff, Apr 1, 2014.

Tags:
  1. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    Hello again,

    I usually try to limit how often I make threads here at least without researching the phrase/word as much as possible first, but given that I haven't been able to find any concrete definition of this word for a while, and that it seems to be everywhere, a clarification might even help others also learning Norwegian.

    Såpass

    What exactly is the difference between såpass and "så"? At first I thought it was more of an indicator of the "degree of something" (Like, "Eska var såpass tung at jeg ikke klarte å bære den hit"?). (the box was so heavy that I couldn't manage to carry it here)

    Here are two examples I got from a video with some examples of the word:

    1. Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.

    2. Det er veldig bra at denne feilen oppdages såpass tidlig - It's very good that this error is discovered sufficiently early

    Now for number 1, would I be wrong in saying you could also say "Godt å få bekreftet en stor ordre"?

    For number 2, I'm quite unsure, I probably would have said "tilstrekkelig tidlig" or "tidsnok" or something.

    When should and shouldn't one use "såpass"?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Ífaradà Member

    Norwegian/Yoruba
    Såpass is a word with a couple different uses. It can mean different things depending on the context.

    You can use "så" in the first example, indeed, but såpass sounds better.

    In the second example, "såpass" means: "it's very good that this terror was discovered this early. (As early as it was).

    Tilstrekkelig tidlig sounds odd and is not in use. Tidsnok, however, is a good replacement for såpass, though it would change the meaning slightly.
     
  3. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    Ahh I see, I had a feeling it was like "this early" (because it's unique to English we "this" and you wouldn't say "dette tidlig" in Norwegian)

    But does this mean it would apply to something like, "Why are you THIS/SO angry?" - "Hvorfor er du såpass sinna?"?

    Thanks!
     
  4. Ífaradà Member

    Norwegian/Yoruba
    Exactly!

    Though you would have to say "hvorfor er du så sinna?" (So in English).
    Doesn't really make much sense, but that's how the word works >.<

    If you are really unsure about its usage, you can replace it with another word 99% of the time.
     
  5. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    Hmm, I thought I was on to something there with "såpass sinna", but in that case, I think I'll play it safe most of the time and just stick to så mostly.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Ífaradà Member

    Norwegian/Yoruba
    You were onto something. Look here:

    De er såpass sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are angry at the point where they could do anything.
    De er så sinna at de kan gjøre hva som helst - they are so angry they could do anything.
     
  7. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    Ah! So you're saying it's used in a comparison(sort of), almost like saying "i den grad at..."?
     
  8. Ífaradà Member

    Norwegian/Yoruba
    Almost, yes.

    Let's say there's a bottle, let's say half the bottle needs to be filled with water before it gets angry. "Såpass" in my example above, informs us that the bottle has reached this point, and is now capable of anything.
     
  9. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    Yeah, I think I get it. More confident with the "såpass x...at han kan y" usage than the others, but understanding them written is no problem.

    Cheers!
     
  10. raumar Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian
    Ífaradà has already given you a good explanation, but maybe I could add that there often is an element of moderation in "såpass". That is probably why you can't use "såpass" in "hvorfor er du så sinna?"

    I think you can translate this sentence a bit differently:
    Godt å få bekreftet en såpass stor ordre - Good to confirm an order of that size.
    Godt å få bekreftet en så stor ordre - Good to confirm such a big order.

    With "såpass", the order is sizeable, but you are not necessarily impressed or overwhelmed by it.
     
  11. sjiraff

    sjiraff Senior Member

    Scotland, UK
    English
    I think I get what you mean, an order "of that size". Does that mean maybe you could say, "Hvorfor er du en såpass sinna mann?"? Maybe?
     
  12. myšlenka Senior Member

    Norwegian
    Your first example doesn't sound like idiomatic Norwegian, it's weird.

    - used to talk about degree, always modifying an adverb or an adjective.
    Såpass - used to talk about degree in comparison with what you would expect in the given context.
     
  13. raumar Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian
    Thanks myšlenka - this was really a much better explanation than my attempts!

    No need to apologize, sjiraff. Your questions deal with things that most native speakers have never thought about - because it is natural for us. I usually learn something new about my own language from your questions. But this also means that some of us have to fumble a bit, before we are able to explain.
     
  14. Grefsen

    Grefsen Senior Member

    Southern California
    English - United States
    I'm interested to know what some of the possible English translations for såpåss could be in the following sentence?

    "Såpass takhøyde må det være."

    Would "enough" make sense in this example?

    "There must be enough headroom."

    To provide more context, this sentence comes from a quote of the Norwegian National fotball trener, Per-Mathias Høgmo that was used in the headline of this Dagbladet article:

    Høgmo om spillerkritikken: - Såpass takhøyde må det være

    Here is the sentence in the article that precedes this example:

    "Det er fenomenalt at vi er forskjellige, er emosjonelle og gir uttrykk på det på forskjellig måter når man er skuffet etter kamp."

    På forhånd takk for hjelpen! :)
     
  15. Wilma_Sweden

    Wilma_Sweden Senior Member

    Lund, Sweden
    Swedish (Scania)
    I'm not entirely happy. We have såpass in Swedish, too, with the same usage or thereabouts judging by the previous examples. I'd probably write "There has to be that much headroom" or "There must be that much headroom" - "enough" alone doesn't quite nail it IMO.
     
  16. raumar Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian
    I agree with Wilma - "enough" isn't quite right, "that much" seems better.

    By the way, is "takhøyde"/headroom used the same way in Norwegian and English, when we talk about the figurative meaning? The general translation of "takhøyde" (used figuratively) would be "tolerance".
     
  17. Grefsen

    Grefsen Senior Member

    Southern California
    English - United States
    Tusen takk for det Wilma og raumar! :thumbsup:

    "There must be that much tolerance" sounds like a good English translation for this example. I'm tall and typically only use the word headroom when describing my experience while seated in a small car. ;)
     
  18. Wilma_Sweden

    Wilma_Sweden Senior Member

    Lund, Sweden
    Swedish (Scania)
    The word slack comes to mind, but I'm not sure whether it would fit in the context, normally you just cut someone some slack and you'd probably have to seriously rephrase the sentence...?
     
  19. raumar Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian
    Thanks for the suggestion, Wilma. My English is not good enough to find the best translation, but "takhøyde" is generally used to describe a permanent feature of an organization. By using this term, Høgmo implies that there always is room for such open debate and criticism in his team. He is not just saying that we should cut these players some slack in this specific case - it is more general than that.
     
  20. Wilma_Sweden

    Wilma_Sweden Senior Member

    Lund, Sweden
    Swedish (Scania)
    OK, I see. I only just remembered that we have a similar expression in Swedish - högt i tak, with exactly that meaning, I just haven't come across takhöjd used in that sense, like Grefsen I think of the physical height of a ceiling. :) But of course it's creative usage and quite logical when you think about it.

    I think tolerance is the closest we're getting to an English equivalent at the moment, unless Grefsen comes up with other alternatives. One could of course rephrase the above and ask in the English Only forum if there is a word or expression with that particular meaning.
     
  21. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    What about "culture of tolerance"?
     
  22. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    My proposal: "We should expect at least that much of tolerance."
     
  23. raumar Senior Member

    Oslo, Norway
    Norwegian
    Thanks, Ben - I agree that the "at least" improves the translation.

    But I am not so sure about the "expect" part. With "expect", the meaning seems to be that the coach expects the football players to be tolerant of each others. As far as I can see, however, the point is that the coach tolerates open debate and criticism among the players. A stricter coach might have reprimanded the players, but Høgmo won't do that.
     
  24. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Well, the original sentence does not specify who should expect tolerance from whom, it is quite open and general. Only the context make us understand the exact meaning. I don't think that the use of expect points out any particular part who expect ('we' can be just "anybody" in this context), but maybe "One should expect .." makes it even more general?

    By the way, I think that "såpass" carries the "hidden" meaning of "at least" in many contexts.
     

Share This Page

Loading...