noyer le poisson
- Thread starter nima1234
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Bonjour!
'Noyer le poisson' is an idiomatic expression. Arguing over and over a subject with some nonsence in order to confuse the audience/person. The point is to have someone getting totally confused.
Literaly, it means 'to drown the fish' (how can you drown a fish?!
, of course). However, I'm afraid I do not know the origin of that expression.
Now, if it's not really what you were after, as DDT said, we really need more context.
'Noyer le poisson' is an idiomatic expression. Arguing over and over a subject with some nonsence in order to confuse the audience/person. The point is to have someone getting totally confused.
Literaly, it means 'to drown the fish' (how can you drown a fish?!
, of course). However, I'm afraid I do not know the origin of that expression. Now, if it's not really what you were after, as DDT said, we really need more context.
Hi there,
It comes from fishing:
When you have a big fish hooked and you fear about the resistance of your line, in order to tire it, you pull (till its head is out of the water => drown) and let go, over and over. The fish will be confused and stop debate.
You have drown the fish !
Pour l'explication en français voir : noyer le poisson - signification et origine de l'expression
It comes from fishing:
When you have a big fish hooked and you fear about the resistance of your line, in order to tire it, you pull (till its head is out of the water => drown) and let go, over and over. The fish will be confused and stop debate.
You have drown the fish !
Pour l'explication en français voir : noyer le poisson - signification et origine de l'expression
It means to cloud the issue
Well, kind of (détourner l'attention de quelqu'un pour que celui-ci ne voie pas le problème principal). But the use of this expression indicates (most of the time) a vain attempt.
example: Selon le journal (!) Closer, Nicolas S. s'est marié ce matin avec Clara Blondi. le porte-parole de Nicolas S. a bien essayé de noyer le poisson, en vain : les reporters socialistes avaient déjà des clichés de l'événement.
example: Selon le journal (!) Closer, Nicolas S. s'est marié ce matin avec Clara Blondi. le porte-parole de Nicolas S. a bien essayé de noyer le poisson, en vain : les reporters socialistes avaient déjà des clichés de l'événement.
Not exactly an expression but a fantastic word for you francophones to learn in English is 'to bamboozle' somebody. Which means to 'noyer le poisson', essentially.
'How about you just get to the point instead of trying to bamboozle me with numbers!'
It has nothing in common with sweeping anything under a rug or a mat or a carpet, those expressions are about ignoring a problem instead of fixing it and not about distracting someone from an issue by confusing them or diverting their attention elsewhere.
'How about you just get to the point instead of trying to bamboozle me with numbers!'
It has nothing in common with sweeping anything under a rug or a mat or a carpet, those expressions are about ignoring a problem instead of fixing it and not about distracting someone from an issue by confusing them or diverting their attention elsewhere.
bamboozle = try to pull the wool over someone's eyes = give someone a line (of bull...)
I don't think we have a completely equivalent idiom. I would say "create a diversion" to mean "try to distract everyone from the real issue" but if you're just talking about one person, I would say "avoid the issue, change topics, etc" but there isnt' a really good idiom.
I thought "to cloud the issue" was a good suggestion, back there.
Indeed, I was thinking it is a little similar to 'pull the wool over someone's eyes'. And as far as I can see quand on est en train de noyer le poisson you are pulling the wool over their eyes but the expression is more about the method used. To me bamboozling is more about the method too;
So I think this is close but I also like the expressions 'muddy the waters' and 'cloud the issue'. To throw out a red herring is very specifically sending someone down ONE wrong route so, yes, a neologistic idiom could be to drown someone in red herrings!
Looks rather like "to blind the person with science".
I thought "noyer le poisson" means "essayer de changer le sujet", perhaps "dévier la discussion"? Like pepoling in #10 (and in 2009!), I can't think of an idiomatic equivalent.
Maybe
wag the dog
wag the dog
I don't think so; see English Wiktionary on this expression.
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You can "noyer le poisson" without changing the subject, just by giving so many irrelevant details that the other person is confused.
What about to muddy the waters ? (see Archijacq's #7). Seems fine to me.
It means don't try to distract me with irrelevant material. Imagine that there's a fish in a tank and that someone is pouring water in, hoping that if they can only pour in enough, the fish will drown. The idiom conveys a sense of silliness and futility about the endeavor. The person saying "don't try to drown the fish" is saying "you're not going to get me distracted from the subject at hand by bringing up this other irrelevant nonsense."
noyer le poisson
The idiom conveys a sense of silliness and futility about the endeavor. The person saying "don't try to drown the fish"
Il ne peut absolument pas être question de silliness and futility ici car la traduction littérale ne convient évidemment pas.
Cf.: le sens propre de l'expression:
Pons donne comme traduction "to fudge the issue" qui me semble bien convenir.
Is "to cloud the issue" commonly used? I've never heard it before. I've heard "cloud someone's judgement" though. Would it be natural to say "don't try to hide the issue" or not?
Ça va bien avec "dissimuler un sujet difficile ou tabou sous un monceau de détails"(#21), non?
As I said earlier, the main idea in noyer le poisson is not changing the subject.
Think of a politician who is asked a delicate question: he seems to answer it, so he doesn't really change the subject, but he subtly mentions all kinds of aspects, issues, details... which are not relevant. That's noyer le poisson!