obsolet - obsolete

gaer

Senior Member
US-English
Cambridge sagt:
obsolete
adjective
not in use any more, having been replaced by something newer and better or more fashionable:
Gas lamps became obsolete when electric lighting was invented.
I think we may have a problem.

DWDS

obsolet /Adj./ <lat.> veraltet: Sie lassen sich mit bedauerlicher Hartnäckigkeit von gewissen obsoleten ... Grundbegriffen leiten Th. Mann 7,18 (Königl. Hoheit)

Very strange.

And Leipzig

Synonyme: alt, ungebräuchlich, veraltet

That's a MESS.

Also:

The same confusion exists in English:

MW

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current : OLD-FASHIONED

I dislike the use of "old-fashioned" as a synonym for "obsolete", but both German and English seem to blur to concepts, and it's very frustrating.

How many of you would use "obsolet" and "veraltet" interchangebly? I would prefer a more precise defintion for both obsolete and obsolet. :(

Gaer
 
  • Kajjo

    Senior Member
    Ich verstehe unter obsolet das Konzept nicht mehr gebräuchlich. Die Konnotation mit veraltet ist sehr stark, dagegen die Eigenschaft altmodisch (old-fashioned) deutlich abgegrenzt.

    Im konkreten Kontext der Gebräuchlichkeit von Wörtern verstehe ich unter einem obsoleten Wort ein Wort, das gar nicht mehr in dem entsprechenden Sinne verwendet wird und häufig sogar kaum noch verstanden wird. Im Kontext von technischen Errungenschaften bedeutet obsolet, daß diese nicht mehr verwendet werden und durch andere Techniken ersetzt wurden.

    Kajjo
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Ich verstehe unter obsolet das Konzept nicht mehr gebräuchlich. Die Konnotation mit veraltet ist sehr stark, dagegen die Eigenschaft altmodisch (old-fashioned) deutlich abgegrenzt.

    Im konkreten Kontext der Gebräuchlichkeit von Wörtern verstehe ich unter einem obsoleten Wort ein Wort, das gar nicht mehr in dem entsprechenden Sinne verwendet wird und häufig sogar kaum noch verstanden wird. Im Kontext von technischen Errungenschaften bedeutet obsolet, daß diese nicht mehr verwendet werden und durch andere Techniken ersetzt wurden.

    Kajjo
    In language, I would understand "obsolete" to mean exactly what you appear to mean by "obsolet". If a word is still in use, even it is dated, old-fashioned, etc., I would not label that word as obsolete.

    Gaer
     

    dec-sev

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I dislike the use of "old-fashioned" as a synonym for "obsolete", but both German and English seem to blur to concepts, and it's very frustrating.


    Gaer
    I think the problem is in the word synonym. Wikipedia says that “Synonyms (in ancient Greek syn 'συν' = plus and onoma 'όνομα' = name) are different words with similar or identical meanings and are interchangeable”

    I personally don’t agree that words with similar meanings can by interchangeable.Of course, a lot depends on the context.
    Originally Posted by Kajjo
    Ich verstehe unter obsolet das Konzept nicht mehr gebräuchlich. Die Konnotation mit veraltet ist sehr stark, dagegen die Eigenschaft altmodisch (old-fashioned) deutlich abgegrenzt.

    Ich vermute, dass zuerst verlaltet was, und dann, wird es obsolet;)
     

    Kajjo

    Senior Member
    I personally don’t agree that words with similar meanings can by interchangeable.Of course, a lot depends on the context.
    You are right. It is a old problem to define synonyms. Only extremely rarely two words are "absolute synonyms" with all meanings and connotations being identical. In most cases, two words have common meanings or at least one common meaning, often with different connotations. For the sake of pragmatic usability of the word synonym I accept than.

    However, there appears to be a very loosely definition in English, which allows a thesaurus or synonym dictionary to list only roughly related words as synonyms of each other. This I cannot accept. They should replace the word synonym by related meanings.

    Ich vermute, dass zuerst verlaltet was, und dann, wird es obsolet;)
    Ja, genau. Ein Wort ist altmodisch, dann veraltet, dann obsolet, schließlich archaisch.

    Kajjo
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    You are right. It is a old problem to define synonyms. Only extremely rarely two words are "absolute synonyms" with all meanings and connotations being identical. In most cases, two words have common meanings or at least one common meaning, often with different connotations.
    I agree with that.
    For the sake of pragmatic usability of the word synonym I accept than.
    Here is an example of something close to your "absolute synonyms":

    scary-frightening

    I agree with you that words so close in meaning are hard to find.

    There are many other examples we could come up with in English and German that fit the more general idea of a "synonym". However, I would like them to be closer in meaning than "obsolet" and "veraltet".

    I like this idea very much:
    Kajjo said:
    Ein Wort ist altmodisch, dann veraltet, dann obsolet, schließlich archaisch.
    But there is a problem. Look up "veraltet" in LEO and you will find: archaic, obsolete, out-of-date.

    And on Leipzig's site:

    To a scientific mind this must seem insane. It certainly bothers me.

    I would suggest these, as rough equivalents:

    altmodisch, out-of date
    veraltet, ???
    obsolet, obsolete
    archaisch, archaic

    The problem for me is "veraltet". It's very hard to pin down the meaning in relationship to the the other words you have suggested.
    However, there appears to be a very loosely definition in English, which allows a thesaurus or synonym dictionary to list only roughly related words as synonyms of each other.
    This I cannot accept. They should replace the word synonym by related meanings.
    I would prefer this too, but I think many sources in German are equally guilty of using words that are only roughly related. :)

    Gaer
     
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