Old Persian ardata- cognate with PIE *arg-
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I think the middle/modern Persian word is a borrowing from Byzantine Greek. In Byzantine Greek, colloquially, silver was «ἀσήμιν» asḗmin, Late ByzGr asímin, diminutive of the neuter noun «ἄσημον» ásēmon (Late ByzGr ásimon) --> newly-cut unimpressed/unmarked silver coin = privative prefix «ἀ-» a- + neuter noun «σῆμα» sêmă --> sign, symbol, trait, omen, mark, character, feature, gravestone.
In MoGr colloquially, silver is ασήμι [aˈsi.mi] (neut.).
In MoGr colloquially, silver is ασήμι [aˈsi.mi] (neut.).
Thank you, although that doesn't answer my question, it is certainly more interesting, however isn’t Byzantine Greek rather late for Persian to borrow from especially for such a fundamental metal?
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In Old Persian, ardatam is translated as “silver” — Darius' foundation tablet from Susa, line 40:
The idea about the Greek origin of the Middle>New>modern Persian word does exist among Iranists. In Zoroastrian Pahlavi this word is asēm~asēmēn.
abariya \ hya \ idâ \ karta \ ardatam
(see below in the translation the phrase The silver and the ebony were brought from Egypt).The idea about the Greek origin of the Middle>New>modern Persian word does exist among Iranists. In Zoroastrian Pahlavi this word is asēm~asēmēn.
Thanks ahvalj.
Ok, so Persians dropped ardata in favour of asēm~asēmēn at the Byzantine Greek period rather than the much earlier contact with the Greeks?
Do we know if ardata survived in MP/NP in some form?
There is ارزیز but, if indeed related, it must have been borrowed from a North-Western language because of this z. And the suffix is different as well.
From what I could find asēm was already the normal word for silver in the Sasanian period (found inscribed on a vessel ca. 300 AD), so must have been borrowed in the Roman era or earlier.
For modern forms there is apparently Yazdi (Zoroastrian Dari/Gabri/Behdinan) ālī (< *ardata/arzata), but hard to actually find a dictionary for this language not locked away in a university library.
For modern forms there is apparently Yazdi (Zoroastrian Dari/Gabri/Behdinan) ālī (< *ardata/arzata), but hard to actually find a dictionary for this language not locked away in a university library.
Thank you.
ارزیر according to Dehkhoda means tin and Wiktionary lists it as tin & lead.
Yazd/یزد, according to Wiktionary “from Avestan 𐬫𐬀𐬰𐬀𐬙𐬀 (yazata, “yazata, (an entity that is) worthy of worship”).”
How about NP arz /ارز “worth” although I’m sure someone would have spotted it by now.
ارزیر according to Dehkhoda means tin and Wiktionary lists it as tin & lead.
Yazd/یزد, according to Wiktionary “from Avestan 𐬫𐬀𐬰𐬀𐬙𐬀 (yazata, “yazata, (an entity that is) worthy of worship”).”
How about NP arz /ارز “worth” although I’m sure someone would have spotted it by now.
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Does anyone know the actual NP for ālī please, it can only be آلی ?
More precisely, in Persian ard becomes āl as in sāl; ṛd (with vocalic ṛ) becomes il (as in dil) or ul (as in gul).
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I meant that the Old Persian combination of sounds rd becomes l in the later language, and ard becomes āl, so the abovementioned ālī can indeed be derived from the Old Persian ard- with some suffix.
Concerning the d in the Old Persian ardatam: unlike in the rest of attested Iranic languages, the outcome of the Proto-Indo-European *gʲ developed not into z but into *đ and then into d in this language, and therefore ardatam is a regular, sound after sound, Old Persian continuation of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European word and an exact counterpart of the Latin argentum.
Yazdi in #7 means a term, not an etymologically related syllable.
Concerning the d in the Old Persian ardatam: unlike in the rest of attested Iranic languages, the outcome of the Proto-Indo-European *gʲ developed not into z but into *đ and then into d in this language, and therefore ardatam is a regular, sound after sound, Old Persian continuation of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European word and an exact counterpart of the Latin argentum.
Yazdi in #7 means a term, not an etymologically related syllable.
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I thought that was the case so drafted a post to ask for clarification but changed my mind, so red faced either way
.These are just parallel examples of the Old Persian rd sequence developing into New Persian l. I am too lazy to look up the exact attested and reconstructed forms right now, but they would be roughly something like θard-, dṛd- and wṛd- in Old Persian. Compare the first two with Sanskrit śarad- and hṛd-; the last with the loanword in Arabic: ward-.
The passage to which this translation belongs is in lines 40-41: rdatam \ utâ \ asâ \ dâruv \ hacâ \ Mudrâyâ \ abariya \
The word written a-r-d-t-m was probably pronounced as ṛδatam (nom. sing. neuter) with zero-grade in the first syllable, like Avestan ərəzata- .
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The term asimon exists in Hebrew no later than the 2nd century (appears several times in the Mishnah) so could be borrowed by Persian too before the Byzantine era. Denotes the meaning as described above: "unsigned", a piece of metal similar to coin but with no specified value.
Also attested in Hebrew of 7th century and used intensively in the 20th century, but this is off-topic.