on charges of a 10 million yuan mortgage fraud

Zelus et Radix

Senior Member
Spanish
Hi there!
I'm translating this new:

A court sentenced David to a 10 years imprisonment on charges of a 10 million yuan mortgage fraud on december 9, 2009
法院判处David10年徒刑和一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈于2009年12月9日。

Please check my try.
 
  • BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    A court sentenced David to a 10 years imprisonment on charges of a 10 million yuan mortgage fraud on december 9, 2009
    法院判处David10年徒刑一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈于2009年12月9日。

    Please check my try.
    That's a very good attempt. :)

    Basically, there are a few minor problems.
    1. is out of place here. Conjunction '和' in Chinese means 'and' in the sense of togetherness.
    2. 欺诈于 is correctly translated but it is not usually how we word it on report like this.
    3. 10年- You may consider 十年.

    If you read Chinese news (be it on the net or printed materials), for this kind of expression, there is a very typical sentence pattern to follow.

    法院 对<the culprit name> 于<date/time> 所犯的<chargers> 判处<sentence>。
    <chargers> is a noun. Just add the word "案" to form one.

    Give it another shot. :)
     

    Jerry Chan

    Senior Member
    Cantonese, Hokkien
    It seems to me 9 Dec 2009 is the day the court gave the sentence, not the crime happened.
    In this case, you can put the date in front of the sentence:
    2009年12月9日,xxxxxxxx
     
    If you read Chinese news (be it on the net or printed materials), for this kind of expression, there is a very typical sentence pattern to follow.

    法院 对<the culprit name> 于<date/time> 所犯的<chargers> 判处<sentence>。
    <chargers> is a noun. Just add the word "案" to form one.
    Agree。but 法院对<chargers>判处 sounds strange. I guess it should be法院 对<the culprit name> 于<date/time> 所犯的<chargers> 宣判,判处<sentence>。

    Usually crime should be blamed, so we can use the passive voice. And the word order in Chinese is a little different. Here is the pattern.
    David,因于2009年12月欺诈一千萬元抵押贷款,被法院 一审 以XX罪,判处有期徒刑十年。
    As 中国人民法院 is the only 审判机关,(被法院) is often omitted.
     
    Last edited:

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    法院 对<the culprit name> 于<date/time> 所犯的<chargers crime> 判处<sentence>
    法院/对David/于2009年12月9日/所犯的一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案/判处十年徒刑。(从简: 法院对某人于某日所犯的某案判处某刑)

    To make it easier for non-native speakers to visualize the grouping of words, here goes ...
    法院对David---(于2009年12月9日所犯的一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案)---判处十年徒刑。
    Note: "对" functions as the preposition "to" for the verb "判处"(to sentence).

    It may also be rewritten as ...
    (对David于2009年12月9日所犯的一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案)---法院判处被告人十年徒刑。
    Note: In this case, "对" means "with regard to" or "concerning".
     

    nazha1024

    Senior Member
    chinesepasmandarin
    pobre david...la mejor traduccion es:由于DAVID在2009年19月9号犯了下一千万元抵押贷款的欺诈案,法院判了他十年的有期徒刑。necesitas saber que lenguas chino y ingles es diferentes,oración complexo ingles se traduce en oracion simple chino,en dos o tres frases.aprox...

    un saludo y estupendo ano 2010.
     

    Zelus et Radix

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    谢谢您们!
    Since this is my first translation try, I'm carefully reading each of your suggestions and learning a lot from them.

    By the way, I'll be writing more reports on news, not always sentenced people but also arrested, detained, jailed, whatever, so can I do something like this?:

    由于(subject)在(date)犯了下(offense)案,(court/judge)(jail)了他(prison time)的有期徒刑于(arrest date)
    由于(subject)在(crime date)犯了下(offense)案,(police)(arrest)了他于(arrest date)
     

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    By the way, I'll be writing more reports on news,
    由于carries a "reprimanding" tone on the subject. It is okay if you use it colloquially or when written, it expresses the speaker's opinion (which may or may not be objective). I will not go in to details.

    For newspaper/official reporting of this nature, it is uncommon to use 由于.

    You may consider 有关于/关于.

    Alternatively, you may make "court/judge" as the subject by using Active Voice.
     

    Jerry Chan

    Senior Member
    Cantonese, Hokkien
    Please forgive my stubbornness, but I'm still not convinced the date here refers to when the crime was committed.
    10 million yuan mortgage fraud is a serious and complicated crime. It usually takes weeks or months to complete the fraud and the subsequent investigation.
    Assuming that this was taken from a real news report, I just don't think it will pinpoint one day within the whole process as the date when the crime happened.
    Can any other WR members give your view? Thanks.
     

    samanthalee

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, English - [Singapore]
    It seems to me 9 Dec 2009 is the day the court gave the sentence, not the crime happened.
    In this case, you can put the date in front of the sentence:
    2009年12月9日,xxxxxxxx
    I concur on this. The sentence structure is "The court did something on 9 Dec". 9 Dec is the day the court passed the sentence on the fraud case.
     

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    Please forgive my stubbornness, but I'm still not convinced the date here refers to when the crime was committed.
    10 million yuan mortgage fraud is a serious and complicated crime. It usually takes weeks or months to complete the fraud and the subsequent investigation.
    Assuming that this was taken from a real news report, I just don't think it will pinpoint one day within the whole process as the date when the crime happened.
    Can any other WR members give your view? Thanks.
    I'm not a native English speaker but I agree with you on this. It's just that this is not the focus point for our dear thread starter.

    In short, the original sentence is better understood if we say ...
    * On December 9 2009, a court sentenced David to a 10 years imprisonment on charges of a 10 million yuan mortgage fraud.

    And we unknowingly mistaken it for ...
    * A court sentenced David to a 10 years imprisonment on charges of a 10 million yuan mortgage fraud committed on December 9, 2009.

    Still, you may listen to what native speakers have to say. :)
     

    Zelus et Radix

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    由于carries a "reprimanding" tone on the subject. It is okay if you use it colloquially or when written, it expresses the speaker's opinion (which may or may not be objective). I will not go in to details.

    For newspaper/official reporting of this nature, it is uncommon to use 由于.

    You may consider 有关于/关于.

    Alternatively, you may make "court/judge" as the subject by using Active Voice.
    Even better! Thank you!

    The phrase is based on a real new but I changed some data because I don't remember the exact data and the idea is having kind of an structure for any future news translations. The real case is this one.

    Please forgive my stubbornness, but I'm still not convinced the date here refers to when the crime was committed.
    10 million yuan mortgage fraud is a serious and complicated crime. It usually takes weeks or months to complete the fraud and the subsequent investigation.
    Assuming that this was taken from a real news report, I just don't think it will pinpoint one day within the whole process as the date when the crime happened.
    Can any other WR members give your view? Thanks.
    Now, that's a really interesting point since sentence structure changes depending on whether it is crime date or judgment date, guess I wrong? In this case, as you say, December 9 is judgment date, so I should be placing Dec 9 on start, shouldn't I?:

    于2009年12月9日, 关于David[在(date not available)]犯了下一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案,法院判处了他10年徒刑的有期徒刑

    I want to be sure of present phrase before trying active voice.
     

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    于2009年12月9日, 关于David[在(date not available)]犯了下一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案,法院判处了他10年徒刑的有期徒
    法院 2009年12月9日 David 犯的一千萬元抵押贷款欺诈案 判处(被告人)十年有期徒刑。

    If you have to refer to the subject at the later part of your sentence, use '被告人' in lieu of '他'.
     
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