organico

Come si traduce "organico", intendendo con questo termine la strumentazione di una composizione musicale? per esempio: una composizione con lo stesso organico dell'Ottetto di Schubert...


Aggiungo che conosco il termine "scoring", ma mi chiedo se ce ne sia un altro - o è corretto dire: a composition with the same scoring as Schubert's "Octet"?

aluclom
 
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  • GavinW

    Senior Member
    British English
    è corretto dire: a composition with the same scoring as Schubert's "Octet"?

    I don't know about scoring. I'm not sure if it's exactly the same. It might be, but I don't know enough about it.
    I'm pretty sure you can say "the same range of instruments", but I don't know if you need a term that is more technical.
     

    elemika

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Ciao,
    forse si tratta di "Instruments"?
    Un esempio: Organico strumentale: quartetto d'archi, pianoforte, flauto, clarinetto, percussioni=
    they are required to use the following instruments: *string quartet *piano *flute *clarinet *percussions(art 4).
    "Musical score" qui
    è tradotto con " Le partiture"
    (
    musical score - a written form of a musical composition; parts for different instruments appear on separate staves on large pages)

    Aspettiamo altri pareri
     
    Torno a una domanda che avevo posto qualche mese fa, ma alla quale non avevo ricevuto una risposta soddisfacente. "Organico" può essere, credo, tradotto con "scoring", per esempio: L'organico della Quinta Sinfonia di Beethoven è.... (The scoring of the Fifth Symphony of Beethoven is... oppure The Fifth Symphony of Beethoven is scored for....). Ma sono quasi sicuro che ci sia un altro termine. Esempio: l'organico dell'ensemble musicale "XY")... Come si può tradurre? In tedesco, lingua che conosco bene, si direbbe: Die Besetzung des Ensemble "XY"... ist...
    Grazie, aluclo.
     

    Tellure

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Forse (orchestral) complement?

    Apart from the core orchestral complement, various other instruments are called for occasionally. These include the classical guitar, heckelphone, flugelhorn, cornet, harpsichord, and organ.
    Orchestra - Wikipedia

    A wind ensemble may contain all types of wind instruments, including both brasses and woodwinds, whereas a woodwind ensemble consists entirely of woodwind instruments with occasional aid from a piano or other instrument outside the ensemble's standard complement.
    The Difference Between a Wind Ensemble and Symphonic Winds | eHow
     
    Aluclom,
    I think the term you are looking for is: "orchestration" or
    "musical orchestration." : http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/orchestrate

    or "arrangement/musical arrangement": the adaptation of a composition to voices or instruments, or to a new purpose.

    no, not in this case: what I'm looking for is how to translate "L'organico di un ensemble o di un'orchestra - you may say the orchestration of a certain composition is: 2 flutes, 2 oboes etc., but you can't translate "L'organico dell'Ensemble 'XY' è: flauto, oboe ecc." with "The orchestration of the Ensemble 'XY' is: flute, oboe etc." - Do you understand what I mean?
    best, aluclom
     

    Blackman

    Senior Member
    Italiano/Sardo
    Non sono un esperto, ma se ho ben capito con organico intendi l'insieme degli strumenti necessari all'esecuzione di una data opera. Cioè, l'organico necessario per eseguire l'Ottetto di Schubert è lo stesso previsto per XXX. Mi sbaglio?

    Questo dice Wiki:

    Organico
    L'insieme degli strumenti e delle voci utilizzate per eseguire un brano musicale. A partire dal XVII secolo è generalmente prescritto dal compositore.
     
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    NewYorktoLA

    Senior Member
    English-the variety known as AE
    Organico
    L'insieme degli strumenti e delle voci utilizzate per eseguire un brano musicale. A partire dal XVII secolo è generalmente prescritto dal compositore.

    It really does sound like orchestral (or musical) instrumentation.
    (From Wiki "Trout Quintet":
    Rather than the usual piano quintet lineup of piano and string quartet, Schubert's piece is written for piano, violin, viola, cello and double bass. The composer Johann Nepomuk Hummel had rearranged his own Septet for the same instrumentation,[3] and the Trout was actually written for a group of musicians coming together to play Hummel's work.
     

    Alice in Wunderland

    New Member
    English
    I have had to translate "organico strumentale" - and I came up with orchestral layout as an option. Organico societaria, in the business world, is the arrangement of people within an organisation. It seems that this should equally apply in the the layout of the orchestra or musicians. Not merely the number of players of each instrument, but how they are arranged in the hall. Guessing, of course, but would the score have this information (that is, where everyone sits in the orchestra)?
     

    Blackman

    Senior Member
    Italiano/Sardo
    My previous answer to this question wasn't completely wrong. It means staff, the workforce of an orchestra. You're right then, and the burden of the choice for the right term in English is all on your shoulders...
     
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    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I have had to translate "organico strumentale" - and I came up with orchestral layout as an option. Organico societaria, in the business world, is the arrangement of people within an organisation. It seems that this should equally apply in the the layout of the orchestra or musicians. Not merely the number of players of each instrument, but how they are arranged in the hall. Guessing, of course, but would the score have this information (that is, where everyone sits in the orchestra)?
    It has nothing to with the layout, according to a post above:

    Organico
    L'insieme degli strumenti e delle voci utilizzate per eseguire un brano musicale. A partire dal XVII secolo è generalmente prescritto dal compositore.

    I'd say 'orchestration' or 'instrumentation'.
     

    Alice in Wunderland

    New Member
    English
    Having studied this composer in great depth, and knowing his particularities when it came to positioning of musicians (I doubt if he is unique in this regard) - I am compelled in this context to consider that he meant the type of instruments used, the number of instruments, and the placing of the musicians - can we at least agree on these basics?
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    What context? You didn't give us any context: you just said you had to translate 'organico strumentale'. :) That has nothing to do with 'layout'. And the 'organico societario' is basically the Organisation Chart of a company: who does what in the organisation. This is the 'layout' of a company:

    FacilityLayout.jpg
     

    lentulax

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Come si traduce "organico", intendendo con questo termine la strumentazione di una composizione musicale? per esempio: una composizione con lo stesso organico dell'Ottetto di Schubert...


    Aggiungo che conosco il termine "scoring", ma mi chiedo se ce ne sia un altro - o è corretto dire: a composition with the same scoring as Schubert's "Octet"?

    aluclom

    Torno a una domanda che avevo posto qualche mese fa, ma alla quale non avevo ricevuto una risposta soddisfacente. "Organico" può essere, credo, tradotto con "scoring", per esempio: L'organico della Quinta Sinfonia di Beethoven è.... (The scoring of the Fifth Symphony of Beethoven is... oppure The Fifth Symphony of Beethoven is scored for....). Ma sono quasi sicuro che ci sia un altro termine. Esempio: l'organico dell'ensemble musicale "XY")... Come si può tradurre? In tedesco, lingua che conosco bene, si direbbe: Die Besetzung des Ensemble "XY"... ist...
    Grazie, aluclo.

    So - two questions , which seem to be looking for an English term which can (like 'organico') be used in both cases ; but I'm afraid there isn't one. For each case , there are several ways of expressing the idea , but the most natural is 'Beethoven's Fifth is scored for ...' (as you said), and 'the Ensemble XY consists of/is made up of...' e.g. 'The Fibonacci Sequence is a well-known British chamber music ensemble ; it has twenty-two members, who appear in various combinations according to the demands of the programme. On this occasion the ensemble consisted of violin, cello, piano and clarinet, since the main work was the Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps, which was written for (is scored for) those four instruments' .
     
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