Origin of the modern Greek ʦ

ahvalj

Senior Member
Modern Greek surnames rather often contain the sound ʦ, e. g. among the members of parliament we find Κόλλια-Τσαρουχά, Τσακαλώτος, Τσανάκα, Τσιάρας, Τσίπρας, Τσίρκας, Τσουκαλάς (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(2015)), Τσαβδαρίδης, Τσούκαλης and Τσουμάνης (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(Ιούνιος_2012)). What is the origin of this affricate? Is it a dialectal outcome of k, kj, t and tj?
 
  • fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    Many Greek surnames are in fact Turkish, with τσ for Turkish ç, and τζ for Turkish/Persian/Arabic c. Or Albanian. Or Vlach. Or Venetian. Or Bulgarian....
     
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    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Modern Greek surnames rather often contain the sound ʦ, e. g. among the members of parliament we find Κόλλια-Τσαρουχά, Τσακαλώτος, Τσανάκα, Τσιάρας, Τσίπρας, Τσίρκας, Τσουκαλάς (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(2015)), Τσαβδαρίδης, Τσούκαλης and Τσουμάνης (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(Ιούνιος_2012)). What is the origin of this affricate? Is it a dialectal outcome of k, kj, t and tj?
    Or Τσιουτσιας.
     

    sotos

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Many [ts] are a latin influence. e.g. Κύθηρα > Cirigo > [τσιρίγο]. Some [ts] seem to have been developed in local dialects from the [ki]. It is characteristic of the Kretans to pronounce as [tsi] the diminutive suffix -ki. Other ts are from turkish or slavonic (e.g. tsopanis = shepherd). A Greek-made ts is the contruction of syllables where a vowel is between t and s, in rural dialects. For example χαιρέτησα > χαιρέτ'σα (Ι saluted). Greek declination makes words long, and informal shortenings are common.
     

    fdb

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    One example from your list: Τσαβδαρίδης < Turkish çavdar < Persian jawdar “rye”, with Greek suffix -ίδης.
     
    Modern Greek surnames rather often contain the sound ʦ, e. g. among the members of parliament we find Κόλλια-Τσαρουχά, Τσακαλώτος, Τσανάκα, Τσιάρας, Τσίπρας, Τσίρκας, Τσουκαλάς (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(2015)), Τσαβδαρίδης, Τσούκαλης and Τσουμάνης (https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κατάλογος_Ελλήνων_βουλευτών_(Ιούνιος_2012)).
    Τσούκαλης < Ιt. zucca (pumpkin), metaph. for big-headed, Tσουμάνης < (possibly) Tur. çıman (painter).
    What is the origin of this affricate? Is it a dialectal outcome of k, kj, t and tj?
    Yes, tsitacism is a dialectal feature in MoGr:
    ByzGr «δεκανίκιον» > MoGr «δεκανίκι» (crutch) > Megaran dialect «δεκανίτσι»
    ByzGr «καττούλιον» (kitten) > Cretan dialect «κατσούλι»
    Koine «βοῦττις» (vessel in the shape of the frustum of a cone) > Corfian dialect «βουτσί» (barrel).
     

    ahvalj

    Senior Member
    Leaving aside the Turkish or Italian borrowings, what was the chance of words with dialectal phonetic traits to become officially registered surnames? I am asking this because in many countries the surnames had to be approved by the church or official instances, and as a result they were often brought in accordance to the literary standard.
     
    Even emperors (during the Byzantine Empire) had family names with dialectal phonetic traits, e.g «Ἰωάννης Τσιμισκῆς» [ʦ͡imiˈscis], «Ἀλέξιος Μούρτζουφλος» [ˈmurʣ͡uflos], it's no big deal in Greece.
    As far as I know, there is not such a problem in Greece. I think the first (Christian) names have to be approved by church not surnames.
    And the church respects local trends e.g the first name «Τσαμπίκος/Τσαμπίκα» [ʦ͡amˈbikos] (male), [ʦ͡amˈbika] (female) from the island of Rhodes, named after the local cult of Παναγία Τσαμπίκα (akin to Lourdes, or Montserrat)
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    I am puzzled with the Greek surname Tsioutsias. In Poland I had a work colleague named Ciucias /Tsiutsias/. Is the Greek Tsioutsias from Slavic, or Ciucias from Greek?
     
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