Others before oneself, God before all

vikingsfan19

New Member
USA, English
I would really appreciate someone helping me out here because I've never studied Latin and I don't really trust online translators. If you need any more info from me please ask. Thanks again for your help.
 
  • Grüße HENK

    Senior Member
    Germany German
    Hi!
    Sorry I couldn't manage a more precise translation. I would propose:

    "[Sint] aliqui super me, super omnibus deus [sit]!"
    This is literally:
    "Others [be] over me, over all [be] god!"

    I'm not quite sure about:
    super/over: Of course, you didn't neccessarily mean before to mean "higher in hierarchy". If you want it to mean "earlier" or "apparent to" let me know, I'll think of something.

    Grüße, HENK
     

    vikingsfan19

    New Member
    USA, English
    Yea that's what I was meaning before to be. Does anyone else have a different way they would translate it? Thanks for you help too.
     

    J.F. de TROYES

    Senior Member
    francais-France
    Hi!
    Sorry I couldn't manage a more precise translation. I would propose:
    "[Sint] aliqui super me, super omnibus deus [sit]!"
    This is literally:
    "Others [be] over me, over all [be] god!"

    I'm not quite sure about:
    super/over: Of course, you didn't neccessarily mean before to mean "higher in hierarchy". If you want it to mean "earlier" or "apparent to" let me know, I'll think of something.

    Grüße, HENK
    "Super" is rather used with an acc. in this meaning, but I think we can stick to the equivalent of "before", "ante" which can be used figuratively.
    I would suggest :

    "Nonnulli ante se, ante omnes sit Deus"
     

    Grüße HENK

    Senior Member
    Germany German
    Thanks for your corrections. I thought the Abl. was alright because of the stationary meaning of "to be/esse". It's not a motion, so why the Acc.?
    alii<=> aliqui <=>alteri Yep. These clusters of similar words keep giving me trouble. Same with quidem, quicumque, quidam,...
    J.F. translation sounds better to me, too, especially the "se".

    Henk
     

    Fenoxielo

    Member
    United States - English
    According to my dictionary, super can be used with ablative or accusative, so I would think that the motion/stationary distinction would be made there.
     

    J.F. de TROYES

    Senior Member
    francais-France
    According to my dictionary, super can be used with ablative or accusative, so I would think that the motion/stationary distinction would be made there.
    You are right ; "super" may be followed by both cases, but the usual distinction abl. / acc. doesn't work with it . In the Gaffiot dictionary Latin-French, I read : 1- " Preposition + Acc. = on, above ( with or without motion ) , 2- The Preposition + abl. has some shared meanings and thus is also possible here (I am not sure; it seems to me that the acc. is favoured )
    The ancient acc./ abl.distinction to tell motion from stationary chiefly remained with "in" and "sub" , but tended to disappear in classical Latin with "super" and "subter". Most of prepositions followed by the only acc. don't take this point into account ("Latin Syntax" by A.Ernout and F. Thomas )
     

    vikingsfan19

    New Member
    USA, English
    So what would be the final translation here? I asked the same question on another forum and they came up with "Alii supra me; Deus supra omnes." They also thought that "ceteri" could possibly be used instead of Alii.
     

    Fenoxielo

    Member
    United States - English
    Ceteri means "the rest" as in the phrase et cetera. It seems that either alii super me, deus super omnibus OR alii super me, deus super omnes would work.
     

    L'aura che tu respiri

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    According to my dictionary, super can be used with ablative or accusative,
    My dictionaries all say that, as well. However, I am finding that super almost always takes the accusative, even when there is no motion. This is very confusing to me. For instance, “to keep watch over him” to me does not imply any motion whatsoever. Why wouldn’t “him” be in the ablative in this instance?
     

    J.F. de TROYES

    Senior Member
    francais-France
    My dictionaries all say that, as well. However, I am finding that super almost always takes the accusative, even when there is no motion. This is very confusing to me. For instance, “to keep watch over him” to me does not imply any motion whatsoever. Why wouldn’t “him” be in the ablative in this instance?

    Could you please have a look at my previous post ( above ) I wrote ages ago ;). Unfortunately using the accusative or the ablative after a preposition cannot always fit in with the opposition motion vs no motion as it works after in. It depends on the meaning of the preposition and, for example, it's very uneasy to explain why the acc. is used in super omnia ( above all ) rather than the abl. Anyhow I think to keep watch over him would be translated with transitive verbs like observo or speculor.
     
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