Oxymorons/los oximoron

Discussion in 'Cultural Discussions' started by cuchuflete, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. Explorer41 Senior Member

    Well, OK... I have read in my student textbook another thing... But of course, working as a mainframe systems programmer, you should know better! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  2. catlady60

    catlady60 Senior Member

    Nazareth, PA
    English-US (New York City)
    Right-wing reforms.

    Reforms are supposed to be changes for the better, but anything the right wing comes up with amount to changes for the worse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  3. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    If this is oxymoron then anything can be oxymoron, based on a person's own idiosyncrasy. I propose "good butter" to match your oxymoron.
     
  4. LilianaB Banned

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    There are poetic oxymorons and just regular oxymorons. There is more freedom in devising poetic oxymorons. If somebody is writing a book about a place which produces only bad butter, even good butter could be a poetic oxymoron in a particular context.Some of the oxymorons mentioned in this thread to dot qualify for to be categorized as oxymorons: they are more of poetic oxymorons.
     
  5. RM1(SS)

    RM1(SS) Senior Member

    Connecticut
    English - US (Midwest)
    "Good morning."
     
  6. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Chicago
    Spanish - Uruguay
    :D:D,
    ( particularly it today's snowstorm)
     
  7. Omada Senior Member

    España
    Español, España
    Me he leído el hilo enterito!! Aquí van algunos, aunque bueno, no se si pasarán el control de calidad:
    Accidente provocado
    oídos sordos
    emoción contenida
    peso pluma
    la cuadratura del círculo
     
  8. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Accidente provocado: la palabra accidente tiene dos sentidos: lo que ocurre par azar y un desastre. Cuando se habla del Accidente provocado se significa "una crimen que parece ser un accidente (sin un culpable)"
    no es un oximoron vero, solo aparente

    emoción contenida: es una emoción que queda dentro de la alma de una persona, no se manifesta con ningun acción violente
    no es un oximoron vero, solo aparente

    peso pluma: un peso muy pequeño
    no es un oximoron vero, solo aparente

    la cuadratura del círculo: se trata de una tarea matematica de hallar un cuadro con la misma área que un circulo, con los metodos solamente geometricos
    no es un oximoron, absolutamente, es un malentendido
     
  9. Omada Senior Member

    España
    Español, España
    Umm... no estoy de acuerdo, a tus explicaciones les falta subjetividad y yo entiendo que precisamente el oxímoron surge de la necesidad de expresar algo subjetivo. Objetivamente las cosas o son una cosa o son la contraria, pero no las dos a la vez.

    Accidente provocado es un oxímoron entendiendo precisamente que accidental implica que ocurre de forma casual, sin que intervenga la voluntad de nadie, y provocado justo lo contrario, que ha habido voluntad. Por eso cuando se dice "ha sido un accidente provocado" (que lo que parecía un accidente en realidad no lo es porque alguien -que sí se puede saber quién es- así lo ha querido) se están usando dos términos con significados opuestos. SI es accidental no es provocado y si es provocado no es accidental.

    Una emoción contenida es como una explosión que no llega a explotar. La emoción contenida quizás no sea un oxímoron auténtico, pero la expresión sí, porque emoción y contención sí son opuestos (asistió al espectáculo mostrando emoción - asistió al espectáculo mostrando contención)

    Con peso pluma pasa lo mismo. Está claro que lo que significa es un peso muy pequeño, pero por eso se usa la palabra "pluma" como símbolo de lo que no pesa, frente a "peso", que sí pesa.

    Y la "cuadratura del círculo" a parte de la geometría, es una expresión que se usa precisamente para expresar la imposibilidad de algo precisamente por considerarse subjetivamente (no geométricamente) que el cuadrado y el círculo son conceptos contrapuestos.
     
  10. Nanon

    Nanon Senior Member

    Entre Paris et Lisbonne
    français (France)
    "Oídos sordos" no es un oxímoron.
    Infelizmente :(.
     
  11. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Este es precisamente el error de muchas personas que han entendido mal la idea de oxímoron: un oxímoron no es un simple par de términos que algunas personas creen que son mutuamente excluyentes. Un oxímoron es un par de palabras que se contradicen entre sí por su significado inherente, firmemente basado en el lenguaje.
    A veces, un par de términos se afirma que es un oxímoron por quienes se sostiene la opinión de que los dos son mutuamente excluyentes. Es decir, a pesar de que no existe ninguna contradicción inherente entre los términos, el orador expresa la opinión de que los dos términos implican las propiedades o características que no pueden ocurrir juntos.
    Estas opiniones pueden a veces hacerse puramente para el efecto chistoso, con muchos ejemplos como la inteligencia militar, luchadores por la libertad, la ética empresarial, y así sucesivamente.
    Otro ejemplo es el término guerra civil, que no es un oxímoron, pero se puede afirmar que lo sea para el efecto chistoso, si “civil” se interpretará en el sentido de “no militar”, en lugar de “entre los ciudadanos de un mismo estado”. Tales afirmaciones también pueden reflejar una opinión genuina o una posición ideológica. Ejemplos bien conocidos incluyen afirmaciones hechas en contra de "trabajador público", "intermediario honesto", "televisión educativa”, y así sucesivamente.
    También hay algo que podemos llamar “oxímoron popular", que se basa solamente en la falta de erudición y la incomprensión del propio término, como "cuadratura del círculo".

    (Fuente: Wikipedia)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  12. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    England
    English (England)
    No sé si esto es verdad para el español, pero para el inglés no es correcto. En inglés todo lo que falta es que los dos términos tengan una significación aparamente en conflicto. Así que sí "civil war" es un oxímoron en inglés. Estoy de acuerdo con tí en que "military intelligence" no lo es, sino un puro chiste.
     
  13. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Crea lo, o no, pero mi fuente es Wikipedia inglés.
     
  14. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    England
    English (England)
    He verifiado en cuatro diccionarios, y ninguno admite esta definición "estricta". De hecho, dos subrayan que es una contradicción "aparente".

    Grammar @about subraya que

    Si Wikipedia inglés dice lo contrario parece que no esté de acuerdo con muchas otras fuentes (incluso la significación comúnmente aceptada).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  15. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Me parece, que los diccionarios que tu mencionas son relativamente nuevos, y ademas de un tipo que solo registra como “la gente” habla, es decir el uso popular. El oximoron literario, fundado en la tradición, es una cosa diferente.
    La lista de los oximoron aparentes contiene¸ sin embargo, solo expresiones que serían tratado como mutuamente excluyentes basado en su significación lexical malentendida, pero no basado en una consideración sujetiva.
     
  16. Omada Senior Member

    España
    Español, España
    Yo había entendidoque se trataba de aportar oxímoron que fueran expresiones comunes en las distintas lenguas. Pero si ha de ser más literario, esta estrofa humorística que he encontrado, creo humildemente que encaja:

    Ponente el oponente
    tan pedantemente natural
    Talando las palabras con cuchillo
    porque dice que han brotado mal.
     
  17. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    England
    English (England)
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oxymoron
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/oxymoron

    El Merriam-webster es quizás el diccionario más respetado del inglés norteamericano, y lo mismo para el Oxford para el inglés británico.
    Ninguno menciona esta definición estricta y el Oxford subraya que se trata de términos aparentemente contradictorios. El Merriam habla de "incongruous", término que me parece querer decir más o menos lo mismo que "aparentemente contradictorio".
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  18. velisarius

    velisarius Senior Member

    Greece
    British English (Sussex)
    I saw in an English Only thread today "spartan comforts", describing a hotel's facilities.
     
  19. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    La definición de "incongruous" en Merriam Webster no da ningún razón para que se pudiera transladar con "aparentemente".
     
  20. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    England
    English (England)
    No he dicho otra cosa. Dije que "incongruous" quiere decir más o menos lo mismo que "aparentemente contradictorio".
     
  21. Nanon

    Nanon Senior Member

    Entre Paris et Lisbonne
    français (France)
    Hablando de Oxford y de M-W, aquí no pueden faltar "sumptuary expenses".
     
  22. doinel

    doinel Senior Member

    Southern France
    France French
    It should be in jokes that make you groan.
    House MD episode 6 last season.
    He's asking his team about their having children.
    One doctor starts:
    I had good parents.
    House:
    Wrong , it's an oxymoron.
     
  23. Ёж! Senior Member

    Русский
    Another one: 'cult of freedom'. (Either it's a cult or it is freedom.) Applications are especially interesting when people strive to impose order for the sake of freedom…
     
  24. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Which it is not, of course, House is just sarcastic, as usual. Or else you could say that any pair of an adjective and a substantive is an oxymoron.
     
  25. mirifica Senior Member

    Les Lilas
    French
     
  26. King Crimson

    King Crimson Modus in fabula

    Milano, Italia
    Italiano
    And, if Latin has a place in this thread (why not?), I would add to the list the classical adage festina lente (make haste slowly).
     
  27. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    If it means the same as the Russian "торопись не спеша" (~ "do quickly without haste") or "поспешайте медленно" (the same, but the structure is exactly like in Latin), then I would not say it is an oxymoron, because the two parts refer to very different things. The first refers to the speed of action (whether you lose time while making a thing, and whether you make the thing in time), the second refers to the mood of action (whether you make unnecessary and not well thought of actions while working).
     
  28. King Crimson

    King Crimson Modus in fabula

    Milano, Italia
    Italiano
    You can read it that way, certainly. Wiki tells more (here) and offers an additional translation (more haste, less speed) which is close to the meaning of the Russian saying you are mentioning. As to the Latin adage not being an oxymoron, however, I beg to disagree: aside from being classified as such by Wiki (but that's not a clincher, I agree), I think that most oxymorons have a logic/meaning that is often hidden behind the screen of apparently contradictory elements (indeed a case in point is this Latin adage). These multiple layers of interpretation, I believe, are exactly the reason why we are captivated by this figure of speech.;)
     
  29. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    That depends on what one means by an oxymoron, and this is certainly a matter not even of agreement, but of an individual definition. ;) Not being a philosopher or a linguist and therefore having nothing to lose, I would risk the following statement about not exactly philosophy, but rather about approaches to philosophy: most of actual philosophy is philosophy of words. I mean that one seeks knowledge by establishing something already considered known, and dancing around in search of extension to the field of known; for a philosopher, as far as I can gather, things to establish are statements in words. At least, this explains to me why philosophy appears so weird to my mind and not only to mine but to minds of a great many other laymen of philosophy as well; for me, things to establish have always been my ideas & feelings of things, they have been a real object of saying anything of. All this lengthy digression was in order to say that this is of course a reason why an oxymoron for me is not a statement where words contradict one another (I don't even quite understand what it means for words to contradict one another, this is like a dark matter), but a statement where the ideas that I have out of it contradict one another, and thus always a lie by definition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  30. King Crimson

    King Crimson Modus in fabula

    Milano, Italia
    Italiano
    Er... I'm not quite with you on that one (and frankly speaking I'm not even sure I understood all of your post, but that's me:eek:). Anyway, as I think we are going OT, as to the definition of oxymoron just refer to those given in Wiki or the dictionaries mentioned earlier in this thread.

    P.S. as a matter of fact I see that a number of posts in this thread revolves around the definition of oxymoron, so maybe the thread title should be changed to "Definition of oxymoron":rolleyes:
     
  31. learnerr Senior Member

    Russian
    I would say that that's me, but bear with me. :cool:
    All in all, I meant that, okay, this saying does indeed make an apparent contradiction, but why should we put special value on that? Because this contradiction is made of primary meanings of words? Does not work for me, simply counter-intuitive. The question whether philosophy treats words or something else behind them was off-topic, I agree.
     
  32. franknagy

    franknagy Senior Member

    The name of a Hungarian political party: "Lehet Más a Politika" = "The Politics May Be Different".
     
  33. mirifica Senior Member

    Les Lilas
    French
    Bonjour,

    Dans le contexte cité, "antithèse" ne conviendrait-il pas mieux ?
     
  34. franknagy

    franknagy Senior Member

    The standard form of oxymoron is
    adjective+noun
    where the adjective expresses a property which cannot have the noun,
    like "tiny elephant".

    My example is not so simple because it contains
    noun+verb+adjective
    but it matches to the definition that the adjective expresses property which cannot have the noun.

    I have to explain the disillusion of the people from the politics. Many people are convinced that politics is inherently scoundrelism. When such people see the party name "Politics May be Different" they think that even the name of party is a bald lie --> in one word: oxymoron.
     
  35. classoneguy Senior Member

    Aquí / Ici / Right here
    English - Canada
    Soft rock
    Good lawyer (a generalization I know)
    Honest politician (possibly another one)
    Microsoft Works (found elsewhere)
     
  36. eno2

    eno2 Senior Member

    El Hierro de Canarias
    Dutch-Flemish
    C'est du jamais déjà vu.

    Bijvoorbeeld als een ezel zich twee keer aan dezelfde steen stoot, want een ezel stoot zich geen twee keer aan dezelfde steen, zegt de spreuk in het Nederlands.
     
  37. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    I heard "More pregnant" on a TV show. She meant that she was further along in her pregnancy (which is what she should have said).

    pregnant
    pregnanter
    pregnantest
     
  38. JamesM

    JamesM Senior Member

    Rumsfeld's "known unknowns" always struck me as an oxymoron, although I understood what he was trying to communicate.
     
  39. Sense

    Sense Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    One of the most famous uses of the word "oximoron" in the Spanish Literature.
    Actually, I learned it there.
    "Beatriz era alta, frágil, muy ligeramente inclinada: había en su andar (si el oximoron es tolerable) una como graciosa torpeza..." (El Aleph) (Jorge Luis Borges, 1949)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  40. zwim

    zwim Senior Member

    Paris
    français
    into the void (if i'm inside it, it's not void anymore)
    locked up outside
    serious games
    a predictable accident
    intelligent idiot
    everybody should aim at a grade above average (it's not gonna work you know... yet i hear that often, in so many different domains, gasp!)
    fair trade (if it's fair, you have been scamed)
    a smart bomb (yeah, what's smarter than a weapon, this thing just explodes and spray mayhem...)
    a real size miniature
    slow blow
    a published essay (so it's definitive after all ?)
    a temporary tax (don't bother, everybody knows it'll last forever)
    a giant poney (are giant dwarf horses normal horses ?)
    a sharp photography of a nebula
    organized disorder
    a secret of public interest
    to stir a coffee with a tea spoon (in french: touiller son thé avec une cuillère à café).
    lyophilized water
    0% fat butter (i still wonder what's in there dammit!).
    instant dry (yet don't touch it for hours...)
    drive-in (but please stay outside)
    AMT: automated manual transmission (they called it FreeChoice, i see the irony).
     
  41. eno2

    eno2 Senior Member

    El Hierro de Canarias
    Dutch-Flemish
    It's just a play of words, a word and it's denial, and it makes perfect sense (so it cannot be an oxymoron)
     
  42. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    The lines marked red are false oxymorons.
    A real oxymoron must be based on contradiction inherent to the definition of the concept, not on your subjective view.
     
  43. XiaoRoel

    XiaoRoel Senior Member

    Vigo (Galiza)
    galego, español
    Repito la teoría clásica sobre los oximoron. Si se puede insertar en una de las tres clases es un oxímoron, si no, será una antítesis o algún otro tipo de figura.
     
  44. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    But there is one thing common to those definitions, they are based on the language itself, not on the emotional state of individuals. Imagine for example a person that hates the judicial system and for him "just judge" is an oxymoron, while for most people a judge can be just, unjust or indolent.
     
  45. RM1(SS)

    RM1(SS) Senior Member

    Connecticut
    English - US (Midwest)
    Good morning
     
  46. eno2

    eno2 Senior Member

    El Hierro de Canarias
    Dutch-Flemish
    You mean:Good Mourning?
     
  47. eno2

    eno2 Senior Member

    El Hierro de Canarias
    Dutch-Flemish

    The only one that you acknowledge as a real oxymoron, namely "an intelligent idiot", is all but scarce in our surroundings. In fact I feel like one myself sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  48. Packard

    Packard Senior Member

    USA, English
    Humane.

    Only animals are "humane". Humans, on the other hand are "animals".

    "Humane":

    [​IMG]
     
  49. RM1(SS)

    RM1(SS) Senior Member

    Connecticut
    English - US (Midwest)
    Never mind - I see I made the same suggestion two and a half years ago. Which is odd, because when I looked at the thread Sunday it didn't show that I had already participated in it....
     
  50. King Crimson

    King Crimson Modus in fabula

    Milano, Italia
    Italiano
    Asocial network
     

Share This Page

Loading...