pédé / PD / pédéraste

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by nickbuddy, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. nickbuddy Member

    OH, USA
    English (Japanese)
    Moderator Note: several threads on pédé / pédéraste / PD have been merged into this one.


    I was watching the French movie called "The Man I Love (L'Homme que j'aime)", and there is a scene where a main character Lucard (a life guard at the pool) asks Martin if he's gay.

    To me, it sounded like
    I know it's wrong to "out" somebody, and this might not be an appropriate question, but I am curious how the French people say it, or even how to write out correctly.

    If you could help, I'd totally appreciate it.
    If you need a context, it goes like this (PS: Sorry about my misspelling in advance. I'm not really good at French....);
    Lucard: "Je peux ta pose un dernier question. Ton respond ah.."
    Martin: "Ce quoi la question?"
    Lucard: "TE-PE-DE?? (???)"
    Thanks for your help in advance!:D
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2009
  2. Broff Senior Member

    I believe it is written as follow:

    T'es Pédé?
  3. Kelly B

    Kelly B Senior Member

    USA English
    I'm not a native, but I think that this shortened version is t'es (un) pédé ?
    The longer version would be
    Tu es un pédéraste ?
  4. david314

    david314 Senior Member

    Clayton, Missouri
    American English
    Perhaps: Tu es pédé? (pejorative -queer, fag)
  5. sHak. Senior Member

    That's it!

    Unformal way of saying homosexual.

    Would be the english way of saying "Are you gay?"
  6. nickbuddy Member

    OH, USA
    English (Japanese)
    Wow, Merci beaucoup tout le monde pour respondre rapidamente!!!! :)

    I'd really appreciate it!
  7. chumoé Member

    Montréal, QC, Canada
    English - Canada
    pédé, tapette, fifi, gay, homo; they're all words (some offensive) to describe a homosexual male.
  8. tres_gay New Member

    OR, US
    USA, English
    This is like asking "Are you a pederast?" Well, its not quite that impolite, but it is a very archaic way of saying it. <<Est-ce que vous êtes homosexuel?>> would be the way to go if you were looking for a more formal way to say it.

    Also, I'd like to note that while outing someone is extremely rude, asking them about their sexuality need not be, provided it is done with tact.
  9. vanagreg Senior Member

    France, French
    pédéraste refers more to a homosexual who prefers young men.

    "T'es pédé" is coloquial. It's spoken language. "T'es" stands for "Tu es", and "pédé" is more rude than "gay". In French "gay" is also used now, it's more polite.

    I'd translate "pédé" by "fag".

    Are you a fag?
  10. leturc Senior Member

    France French
    t'es pédé is offensive, however if you are joking with friends it is okay.
    A polite but unformal way of saying it would be
    T'es homo ?
    T'es gay ?
    Pédé= faggot
  11. Malcoha

    Malcoha Senior Member

    Belgium (French)
    They now usually describe themselves as "gay" (in french!), "pédé" is nowadays less offensive than it was some time ago (obviously it depends on the way you say it!). It's often used when joking, also with/between gay people.

    edit: agree with Leturc
  12. Hulalessar

    Hulalessar Senior Member

    English - England
    Camille Saint-Saëns disait: "Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste!"

    Qu'est-ce que ça voulait dire au 19ème siècle?

    Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire aujourd'hui?
  13. cocorico Senior Member

    France/USA - francais/anglais
    Homosexuel, c'est celui qui aime ceux du même sexe. Pédéraste, c'est celui qui aime les jeunes garçons.
  14. dewsy Senior Member

    England, english
    Yes a pederast is someone who prefers boys. It was obviously more acceptable in the 19th century....
  15. cocorico Senior Member

    France/USA - francais/anglais
    I do not think that it was more acceptable in the 19th century.
  16. CDHMontpellier

    CDHMontpellier Senior Member

    Bristol, UK
    True, a pederast specifically goes for boys, whereas a pedophile can prefer boys and/or girls... and pederasty does have more of a strong sexual act in its meaning. So I should have said, "I'm not a homosexual, I just bugger boys".
  17. GEmatt

    GEmatt Senior Member

    La Côte, Switzerland
    English/BE, Français/CH, Deutsch/CH (rustier & rustier)
    Taking a stab in the dark (no pun intended), is it possible that in the 19th century, "homosexual" was distinctly pejorative, whereas "pederast" might have been the preferred term, in some circles during the Romantic period? It might have been perceived as noble, drawing on accounts of the practice in Antiquity. Just conjecture, there...
    Probably not a great deal. It was only a few years back that some innocent doctors were being heckled and threatened by members of the public who failed to see any difference between a pediatrician and a pedophile, so pederast would probably baffle many people, too.
  18. CDHMontpellier

    CDHMontpellier Senior Member

    Bristol, UK
    The word "homosexual" didn't even exist before the later decades of the 19th century (whereas the concept, of course, has been around forever).
  19. GEmatt

    GEmatt Senior Member

    La Côte, Switzerland
    English/BE, Français/CH, Deutsch/CH (rustier & rustier)
    Good point:).

    The question is probably more what such a statement meant during Saint-Saëns' day, late nineteenth/early twentieth century.

    I don't know when in his life he made that remark, but it looks as though he would have been middle- to old-aged. The Romantic period is basically over, and new-fangled terms like "homosexual" and "sexual invert" are being coined and bandied about (courtesy of Messrs Krafft-Ebing, Freud and others); seen in this light, the remark could be read as an affirmation of the "old" values and "virtues", and a dismissal of the modern.

    I think I've done enough guesswork for one day.:D
  20. Budgie

    Budgie Senior Member

    Somerset, England
    UK, English
    Just one thing to add... words like pedophile […] are AE spelling, spelled paedophile, […] in BE...
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2013
  21. Hulalessar

    Hulalessar Senior Member

    English - England
    Since most of the replies are in English I'll carry on in that language...

    Further research indicates that the word pédéraste can be (but is not always) a synonym for homosexuel (Sartre refers to Rimbaud as a pédéraste) which is what I thought and which was what puzzled me about Saint-Saëns' remark. It seems that either he was saying "I am not a homosexual, I'm a homosexual" which is a bit of nonsense and unlikely; or he was saying "I don't fancy men, I fancy boys" which is surprising. Perhaps, as has been suggested, he was implying that all his relationships/feelings were Platonic.
  22. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Je trouve pratiquement impossible de savoir ce qu'il voulait dire par ça, sans savoir plus sur le contexte où il l'a dit.

    Peut-être il n'aimait pas le mot « homosexuel », qui était récent à cette époque. Peut-être il croyait qu'elle mettait l'accent trop dans l'aspect sexuel de la relation...
  23. Hulalessar

    Hulalessar Senior Member

    English - England
    J'ai trouvé le suivant:

    deux autres compositeurs eurent des attirances homosexuelles : il s'agit de Camille Saint-Saëns qui déjà d'un âge mur, fera un certain nombre de voyages au Maghreb pour y trouver de quoi soulager sa libido...(à un importun qui l'avait taxé d'homosexualité, Saint-Saëns aurait en outre répliqué : « Je ne suis pas homosexuel, je suis pédéraste»)

    Après tout c'était peut-être le cas qu'il préférait des garçons.
  24. philipmay

    philipmay Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    United States, English
    I was told by a French friend that the slang word for homosexual is "PD," which is short for pédéraste.

    Can anyone here confirm this?

  25. Cath.S.

    Cath.S. Senior Member

    Bretagne, France
    français de France
    That's probably correct, even though we do not use the word pédéraste any more (or then, very old people still might).

    I would say that Camille Saint-Saëns meant that he would not have a love relationship with any man his own age, or older than himself, only with younger males, like many Greeks did in the times of Socrates.
  26. Aeg45 Member

    United States, Northeast
    English - American
    I've heard similar. I've never heard "PD" but I know I heard shortened versions of "pédéraste" used as slang words for homosexual, such as "pédé" (which would be pronounced the same as "PD") and "rasdep" (the latter of which i found in a book).
    Question for the francophones...as these slang words are based on pédéraste (or maybe pédophile?), are they derogatory?
  27. doinel

    doinel Senior Member

    Southern France
    France French
    Une certaine littérature française de la première moitié du XXème a plus ou moins cautionné l'attirance pour les jeunes gens pour rester polie et ne jetait pas la pierre à la pédérastie, il me semble....
  28. Cath.S.

    Cath.S. Senior Member

    Bretagne, France
    français de France
    PD is pronounded pédé. They are one and the same word, two different spellings.
    Pédé is most likely not based on pédophile, since the latter is a recent term, at least in the general public's vocabulary.
    It is, at any rate, offensive. All those words are.
    Homosexuel is, or used to be, neutral, and gai/y is gaining ground as neutral, non-judgemental terms.
  29. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    English (England)
    This was exactly what occurred to me on reading through this thread. A translation is difficult - and also depends on how much we would be trying to respect the language and culture of the times. I suspect, although do not know, that both "homosexuel" and "pédéraste" would, at the time the quote is from, have evoked the same impression on French ears as "homosexual" and "pederast" would on English ones whatever that impression might have been - and so I'd probably translate it word for word! (It's also a nice get-out, no?:D). As a gloss I think very much like Egueule is suggesting and I like an earlier suggestion - "I'm not homosexual (with that defining the whole life-style, indeed - was he married?), I just bugger boys" (but I wouldn't understand by that prepubescent boys, although young, yes).
  30. Alexandre8 Member

    English, England - Hampshire
    J'ai trouvé cette citation sur Wikipedia tout a l'heure, je pense qu'il explique quelque chose.

    Il s'agit de Roger Peyrefitte, un ecrivan controversé du 20eme siecle. Il ecriva "les amities particulieres".

    Peyrefitte s'est toujours proclamé pédéraste plutôt qu'homosexual : « J'aime les agneaux, disait-il, pas les moutons ».
  31. Kalooza Member

    English - UK
    Whilst I think that a lot of pertinent comments have been made in this thread, maybe you should also consider the possibility that Saint-Saëns was simply being a little bit flippant.
  32. philipmay

    philipmay Senior Member

    Los Angeles
    United States, English
    I'm debating with some people on if the term PD is insulting to gays.

    I have a hard time understanding how calling someone who is gay a «pédéraste» could be anything other than insulting.

    Anyone care to give me their opinions? It would be greatly appreciated. I'm in a debate on another web site.
  33. forgot Senior Member

    French -France
    It is insulting. It may sometimes be used as a reference to Greek past "traditions", yet it is mostly insulting. The word which can, these days, be used without too much trouble in France is the English "gay" pronounced in the French way "gai".
  34. wildan1

    wildan1 Moderando ma non troppo (French-English, CC Mod)

    Just like fag/faggot/queer in English, pédé seems to be an "insider/outsider word", just like the "n-word" is in the US.

    If you are one, you can call someone else that word as a joke. If you're not an insider, it's a big insult.
  35. seanos

    seanos Member

    English - Australia
    I realise this is a true necro-post, but I would be very cautious translating pédé by the word “faggot”. It’s all very context-dependent of course, but the relative weights of these words will never line up.

    I don’t think it would be quite as radical for a French speaker to say Je suis pédé as it would for an English speaker (particularly an American) to say “I’m a faggot”. For some groups of people a more appropriate translation might be “I’m queer” (given the 90s Queer Nation attempt at reclaiming the word), but for others “queer” remains entirely offensive.
  36. Kecha Senior Member

    French (France)
    There's quite a difference between "Je suis pédé" and "T'es pédé ?" or "Espèce de pédé !". As stated by wildan1 in #34, there's a shift depending on whether you're an insider or not, or how well you know the person.
    I can call myself or a friend a "bitch" as a joke, but if I call a stranger "bitch", she'll throw a beer at my face.

    So you'll probably need different words to translate "pédé" depending on tone and context and level of perceived or intended offensiveness.

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