parting, part (in hair) - etymology

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Encolpius

Senior Member
Hungarian
Good morning ladies & gentlemen, it is very easy to find in dictionaries how parting (UK English) or part (North American English) is translated into other languages but I am mostly interested what it means exactly, the origin of the word. So what do you call parting (a line on a person’s head where the hair is divided with a comb) in your language and what is the origin of the word??? Thank you in advance & have a nice day. Enco.

Hungarian - választék [from the verb választ - to divide, to separate]
 
  • Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    Welsh

    rhesen (n.f.) (wen)
    - a (white) small row (from rhes (n.f.) 'a row')
    gwneud (vn) rhesen (wen) yn y gwallt - to make/making a small (white) row in the hair
     
    Greek:

    «Χωρίστρα» [xɔˈɾi.stra] (fem.).
    From the verb «χωρίζω» [xɔˈɾi.zɔ] --> to divide, separate, split up, (between people) break up < Classical v. «χωρίζω» kʰōrízō + ΜοGr suffix «-τρα» [-tra] added to verbs to create feminine nouns (from PIE *-dʰlom, forms nouns denoting a tool or instrument cf Lat. -trum, Proto-Germanic *-þrą).
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Russian - пробор (probór), ~~"a takethrough" (obviously from пробирать probirát', perf. пробрать probrát', literally "to take through"). Sadly, I have pretty vague ideas on how exactly it was formed.
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Welsh
    rhesen (n.f.) (wen)
    - a (white) small row (from rhes (n.f.) 'a row')
    gwneud (vn) rhesen (wen) yn y gwallt - to make/making a small (white) row in the hair
    Hello, I know nothing about Welsh so I do not understand some details, so rhes is a row and rhesen is a white small row....I have no idea what you mean. :D My English is not as good as to understand why it is a row. :confused: And what do you mean by "wen", what does it means? Thanks.
    Russian - пробор (probór), ~~"a takethrough" (obviously from пробирать probirát', perf. пробрать probrát', literally "to take through").
    Sadly, I have pretty vague ideas on how exactly it was formed.
    Hello, what do you mean? Where is the mystery?
     
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    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    Apologies if not clear.

    rhes (n.f.) - a row /rəʊ/ (is that 'egy sor' in Hungarian? My apologies, I used Google Translate)
    -en a diminutive fem. ending
    gwen (adj. fem.) 'white' (Equivalent of French, 'blanche'). Adjs. usually come after the noun in Welsh. When they do, fem. sing. ones can change their form. So gwen becomes wen

    So ..

    rhesen wen
    row DIM white

    Does that make it clearer? :)
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    @Awwal12

    Is the idea that you are almost 'ploughing a furrow' through your hair and that the earth is coming out on both sides of the plough, as the hair is being separated on both sides of your comb as you pass the comb through your hair leaving 'a white track' (or as we say in Welsh, 'a white row' - see my explanation above to @Encolpius)?

    Just an idea.
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    It can be anything. The concept of "taking" can be applied very broadly, and "pro-" is polysemantic to begin with. I was unable to find anything of relevance on "пробирать" in the dialectological dictionary, that's for sure. P.S.: Nothing in the dictionary of Old and Early Modern Russian (11th - 17th centuries) either.
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Hello Welsh Sion, now I understand a lot more but now I do not know how you say parting in Welsh. :D
    So parting is:
    1/rhesen
    2/ rhen wen
    so you need the word white?

    Rhes, rhesen surprised me because I can imagine row as things among nothing, while "pating" is nothing among something (hair), right? :)
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    Oh dear, it seems I don't explain very well. :(

    The word for 'white' (here, wen) is optional, you don't have to use it. That's why I put it in brackets as (wen) in post #5. So you can say,

    Both of these are possible for the noun 'a parting' in Welsh

    rhesen
    row DIMINUTIVE

    rhesen wen
    row DIMINUTIVE white (fem.)

    I probably gave you a wrong translation of 'a row' in Hungarian. My bad for relying on Google Translate. (I don't normally, but I think I know as much Hungarian as you know Welsh. That's my excuse!) Think of 'a path' or 'a track' in the hair which is created when a parting is made. (That's how I tried to explain my idea to @Awwal12 .)
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I think now I understand everything. :)
    Thanks
    rhesen would be "sorocska" in Hungarian
    Can rhesen mean anything else in Welsh? Maybe a small footpath or only parting?
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Yes, for rhes but not for rhesen, please take into consideration I do not know Welsh syntax, so I do not know if a diminutive of a word has the same meaning or changing like it can happen in Romance or Slavic languages. What's more the dictionary says rhes can also mean hair-parting, not only rhesen. I am confused.:confused:
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    rhes is the basic term mean 'a row' (which can also mean 'a hair parting' rhes 1.c.)
    rhesen is like 'a little row' (because the suffix -en is a diminutive ending - it makes the noun smaller. If there was an English word, you could use *'rowette', perhaps!). Because it is small in size, this 'row' can also be interpreted as 'a hair parting')

    The optional adjective, wen, refers to the *'rowette' as being 'white in colour' - i.e. the track/trail/path left by the comb in the hair, on either side of that comb.
     
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    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    rhes is the basic term mean 'a row' (which can also mean 'a hair parting' rhes 1.c.)
    Thanks. That confused me. You had mentioned only rhesen, right? Rhesen makes logic, hair-parting is something small. So you use both rhes and rhesen, right? Which one is most common?
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    Initially, I put only rhesen because that would be my term. Rhesen wen (with the accompanying adjective to the diminutive noun) is also possible, The dictionary I cited prefers rhes (the non-diminutive form) for 'hair-parting'. we can conclude therefore there are at least three possibilities:

    rhes
    rhesen
    rhesen wen


    To avoid ambiguity, I suggest rhesen to be the most commonly used (but with no proof/statistics) otherwise, unless talking specifically about 'hair', rhes could be any type of 'row'.
     

    Trisia

    Senior Member
    Romanian
    Romanian: cărare = narrow path, footpath
    /kəˈrʌre/

    Edit: origin? Erm, Latin, I suppose. I don't know how we ended up using this particular word but I suppose it seems fitting somewhat.
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    It can be anything. The concept of "taking" can be applied very broadly, and "pro-" is polysemantic to begin with. I was unable to find anything of relevance on "пробирать" in the dialectological dictionary, that's for sure. P.S.: Nothing in the dictionary of Old and Early Modern Russian (11th - 17th centuries) either.
    P.S.: I believe, it's related to убирать (ubirát') - lit. "to take away", also with a wide set of more or less adjacent meanings; here, apparently, - "to take away hair from the eyesight" ("to take one's hair away into a bride/into a tail/backwards" is a common expression in Russian). The main trouble with the Slavic derivational morphology is that verbal prefixes sometimes simply don't stack - one prefix just replaces another, while the meaning of the original prefixed construction actually remains. The word MIGHT have meant "pulling one's hair apart" (as a process and its result).
     
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