Passive voice with έχω

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grandcanyonaz

Member
English - USA
I didn't think there was a "have been" conjugation in Greek. My first sentence is been as been somewhere. The second sentence I'm not sure if this is correct. I guess I don't understand the passive voice with have as I don't run into it very often.

έχω πάει στην Ελλάδα = I have been to Greece
έχουν συμφωνηθεί = They have been agreed
έχουν συμφωνεί = They have agreed
 
  • διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    I find your example with "agree" rather difficult with respect to its meaning. Other examples:
    Έχω ιδωθεί = I have been seen
    Έχει παρθεί από τον άνεμο = It has been taken away by the wind

    I have been to Greece
    This is not passive voice.
     
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    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    έχουν συμφωνεί = They have agreed
    This should be έχουν συμφωνήσει and it's active voice.

    έχουν συμφωνηθεί = They have been agreed
    This is correct (and it's passive voice).

    έχω πάει στην Ελλάδα = I have been to Greece
    Correct use and meaning, but it's active voice.


    Έχω/είχα (+infinitive of active voice) are used as have/had in present perfect and past perfect in active voice.
    Έχω/είχα (+infinitive of passive voice) are used as have/had in present perfect and past perfect in passive voice, but the ending of the passive voice infinitive (which is usually -θεἰ, but also -χτεί, -φτεί) is the passive voice indicator instead of been.

    I have covered -> Έχω καλύψει
    I have been covered -> Έχω καλυφθεί (-φτεί) (meaning also: I've covered myself)
    I have thrown -> Έχω ρίξει
    I have been thrown -> Έχω ριχτεί (<ριχθεί) (meaning also: I've thrown myself)
    I have hidden -> Έχω κρύψει
    I have been hidden -> Έχω κρυφτεί (<κρυφθεί) (meaning also: I've hidden myself)

    Some verbs might be tricky, though:
    I have slept -> Έχω κοιμηθεί (κοιμάμαι=sleep is in passive voice in Greek)
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    1 "Been" in the sense of "having been somewhere" can be considered as a past participle of go. In this sense, for the present perfect, Greek has only one form: έχω πάει (for both a and b).

    a I have been to the park today.
    b My son has gone to the park (and is still there).
    c I went to the park yesterday.


    2 Ούτε μπορεί να αμφισβητείται η σημασία που δίνεται για την τήρηση της προθεσμίας που έχει συμφωνηθεί...,

    ...the importance of adhering to the deadline that has been agreed on (by the parties involved).
    Passive clause. The agent (the person(s) or body doing the agreeing) is not mentioned but understood.

    3 (Οι φίλοι μου) έχουν συμφωνήσει - In an active clause, the subject is the agent of the verb (the subject is the person or persons doing the agreeing).
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    Thanks dmtrs for the explanation.


    Some verbs might be tricky, though:
    I have slept -> Έχω κοιμηθεί (κοιμάμαι=sleep is in passive voice in Greek)
    Tricky yes...
    It's passive voice yes but not in it's meaning
    You can't 'have been slept'.
    I have been slept

    I have slept -> Έχω κοιμηθεί=> I have been sleeping. (?)
     
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    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    You are welcome, eno2.

    I have slept -> Έχω κοιμηθεί=> I have been sleeping. (?)
    I have been sleeping is Present Perfect continuous, a tense that does not exist in Greek.
    So He has been sleeping since 9 / He has been sleeping for 8 hours would be expressed by Ενεστώτας (the one and only Present in Greek, Simple and Continuous): Κοιμάται από τις 9 / Κοιμάται 8 ώρες.

    It's passive voice yes but not in it's meaning
    In Greek there's passive voice, which has to do with the form of the verb (ends in -μαι, while active ends in -ω) and passive mode, which has to do with the meaning of the verb. A verb can be in passive voice but in active or neutral mode (like κοιμάμαι, χαίρομαι, εργάζομαι, περιποιούμαι...); these verbs cannot have a passive syntax (with agent and all).
     

    eno2

    Senior Member
    Dutch-Flemish
    In Greek there's passive voice, which has to do with the form of the verb (ends in -μαι, while active ends in -ω) and passive mode, which has to do with the meaning of the verb. A verb can be in passive voice but in active or neutral mode (like κοιμάμαι, χαίρομαι, εργάζομαι, περιποιούμαι...); these verbs cannot have a passive syntax (with agent and all).
    Form and mode differ yes, that's what I meant.

    I have been sleeping
    is
    I have been sleeping is Present Perfect continuous, a tense that does not exist in Greek.
    So He has been sleeping since 9 / He has been sleeping for 8 hours would be expressed by Ενεστώτας (the one and only Present in Greek, Simple and Continuous): Κοιμάται από τις 9 / Κοιμάται 8 ώρες.
    a tense that does not exist in Greek.
    So He has been sleeping since 9 / He has been sleeping for 8 hours would be expressed by Ενεστώτας (the one and only Present in Greek, Simple and Continuous): Κοιμάται από τις 9 / Κοιμάται 8 ώρες.
    Amazing, that use of the Ενεστώτας. I'll try to check a few traslations of phrazes with Present Perfect continuous,.
     

    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    We English native speakers find it very difficult to switch to the Greek use of the present continuous to express an action which started possibly in the distant past but which is continuing now. The Greek syntax does of course make complete sense. I would imagine the fearful English compound tenses - "he has/had/will have been sleeping" - are far more difficult for foreigners to switch to.

    If you are a native third language speaker learning Greek partly through English (like @eno2) - God help you! :eek:
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Notice that there are quite a few verbs ('deponent verbs') in Greek which only have passive voice forms but are usually active in meaning:
    έρχομαι, δέχομαι, φοβάμαι, κοιμάμαι, θυμάμαι, εργάζομαι, επεξεργάζομαι... Except for έρχομαι, whose past and perfect tenses are active in form (ήρθα -- έχω έρθει), deponent verbs form their aorist and perfect like regular passive verbs: δέχτηκα/έχω δεχτεί, φοβήθηκα/έχω φοβηθεί, εργάστηκα/έχω εργαστεί etc.
     
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