Passive Voice

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~ceLine~

Senior Member
Turkish/French
Hello ..!

I'm confused about passive voice in Greek, I learnt all the tenses in active voice but unfortunately I couldn't understand how to use passive voice.
I just know when a verb finish with -ω, for the passive voice the ending become to -ομαι .. So how is it for the other pronouns and tenses .? How to use them, in which order?
Even a website's link would be enough for me, just I need information for it ..

Thank you.


Best regards,

Celine
 
  • jaxlarus

    Senior Member
    Greek (el-CY)
    Well...

    You've got quite a few questions there and I wouldn't know where to begin!

    I'll probably regret this, but there's another aspect of Greek you need to take into consideration: Mood :eek:

    For the time being, give this link a try and let us all know of any further questions. In fact, I'm pretty much convinced there will be some... :rolleyes:

    ;) Tamam, mι?
     

    ~ceLine~

    Senior Member
    Turkish/French
    Thank you very much / teşekkür ederim / ευχαριστώ ...!! (=

    I think so that I know something about mood, anyway I'm gonna read all ..


    Thank you again :) ..!
     
    From what I understand, the difference between verbs ending in ω and ομαι is the active or passive nature of the verb. So for instance "to go" ( πηγαίνω ) is very much a verb where there is a definite action, whereas "to need" ( χρειάζομαι ) is more a state of being and so passive.
    However this only seems to be a vague trend and certainly not a hard and fast rule and to a large degree depends on your personal interpretation. Consider the following:
    1) LEND and BORROW. To my mind these are to very similar verbs, the difference being whether the person is giving or receiving the item. The Greek verbs are however to lend, δανείζω, and to borrow, δανείζομαι. To me both represent an action, but the Greek language view is that to borrow is a passive version of to lend. I guess Greek views borrow as passive because it is considered to be somebody else lending to you, rather than you doing the borrowing.
    2) NEED and WANT. These again are both similar verbs in the sense that they both represent a state of being (I have used both at a bar to request a beer!). Yet to need as we saw above has a passive ending, whereas to want ( Θέλω ) has an active ending.

    As there seems to be a fair amount of difficulty working out what is active and what is passive, I think I will tend towards just learning the right endings when and where they occur.:eek:
     

    ireney

    Modistra
    Greek Greece Mod of Greek, CC and CD
    In a hurry once again so I copy/paste myself once again!

    I hope these general notes help a bit :)

    VOICES

    A.There are two voices. Active and Passive . Voices are what you are more interested in at first. It is the way you decline the verbs. A verb declined in passive voice doesn’t necessary have a passive mood. A very good example is εργάζομαι (I work). Nothing passive about working eh?
    NOTE: The terms don’t mean exactly the same in Greek and in English. You have to remember that in Greek “Voice” means only THE WAY A VERB IS DECLINED, what endings it takes (active endings or passive endings)

    B. Some verbs don’t have an active voice. Εργάζομαι, θυμάμαι (I work, I remember) are such verbs.


    MOODS

    There are four moods. Active, middle, passive and neuter.

    A good example of that is πλένω, πλένομαι.

    Πλένω is active mood. I wash someone/something else. I am doing something.

    Πλένομαι as middle is “I wash myself” I am doing something and it comes back to me. Same with ετοιμάζομαι (I am preparing).

    Πλένομαι as passive is “I am getting washed by someone else”, someone else washes my hair. I am the recipient of the “doing”.

    Κοιμάμαι ( I sleep) is neuter. Nothing happens really. You don’t do anything nor does anyone do anything to you.

    Note: Some talk about yet another mood, the reflexive, but let’s lumb it together with the middle for now.


    Let’s take έρχομαι (I come). Passive endings but a very active meaning right? So, passive voice, active mood.
     

    Kevman

    Senior Member
    USA English
    :eek: Ack! Warning: terminology confusion imminent!!

    When Irene (and I think jaxlarus, too) talk about "voices" and "moods" here, they are talking about what in Greek are called φωνές and διαθέσεις, respectively. I think both of these terms tend to get translated into English merely as "voices" and the distinction between them, regrettably, is not always clarified.

    Although the word διάθεση normally means "mood," the Greek grammatical term διάθεση does NOT refer to what we call grammatical "mood" in English (i.e., indicative, subjunctive, imperative, etc.). The Greek word for that is έγκλιση.

    The grammatical term διάθεση refers to the relation of the verb to the subject. In English we call this "active voice," "middle voice," "passive voice," etc.
    The term φωνή refers to the active or passive verb endings, as Irene said.

    Okay. With that all straightened out, carry on everybody! :)
     
    A good example of that is πλένω, πλένομαι.

    Πλένω is active mood. I wash someone/something else. I am doing something.

    Πλένομαι as middle is “I wash myself” I am doing something and it comes back to me. Same with ετοιμάζομαι (I am preparing).

    Πλένομαι as passive is “I am getting washed by someone else”, someone else washes my hair. I am the recipient of the “doing”.
    Given their are several verbs of this fashion in Greek, can they be interchanged at all. By that I mean, if I want to say "I wash the car" are both of the following valid: ?

    Πλένω το αυτοκίνητο - I wash the car
    Μου Πλένεται το αυτοκίνητο - The car is washed by me
     

    jaxlarus

    Senior Member
    Greek (el-CY)
    Given their there are several verbs of this fashion in Greek, can they be interchanged at all. By that I mean, if I want to say "I wash the car" are both of the following valid: ?

    Πλένω το αυτοκίνητο - I wash the car :tick:
    Μου Πλένεται το αυτοκίνητο - The car is washed by me :cross:
    Μου πλένεται το αυτοκίνητο may not be such a good example, but it would mean something like 'my car's being washed' - in any case NOT by myself.
    Expressions like
    Μου λερώθηκε το τετράδιο

    Μου βράχηκαν τα μαλλιά

    Μου σκίστηκε το παντελόνι


    ...merely imply that the action took place by an agent beyond the control of of the speaker and would not differ much than saying
    Λερώθηκε το τετράδιό μου
    Βράχηκαν μαλλιά μου
    or
    Σκίστηκε το παντελόνι μου
    .

    In order for you to understand the relationship between the active and passive syntax better, let's take an example in 3d person:

    Active Syntax:
    Subject
    - Verb (Active) - Object (direct)
    Οι κάτοικοι του χωριού έχτισαν την εκκλησία.
    The inhabitants of the village built the church.

    Passive Syntax:
    Subject - Verb (Passive) - Agent
    Η εκκλησία χτίστηκε από τους κατοίκους του χωριού.
    The church was built by the inhabitants of the village.

    The result, of course, is the same: We have a church built by some people. The difference is that in the active syntax the emphasis is given on who built it (the subject), while in the passive it is shifted to the church (former object) OR the action itself.

    For that reason, passive syntax is usually used when the agent is either implied by the context, or unimportant:
    Ο ύποπτος οδηγήθηκε στο δικαστήριο.
    To δέμα δεν παραδόθηκε ποτέ.
    Δεν έχουν ανακοινωθεί ακόμη τα αποτελέσματα.
    as well as the second set of examples given above.

    Hope these helped...:)
     

    ~ceLine~

    Senior Member
    Turkish/French
    OH MY GOD .. I didn't get any messages from forum about this thread so I've just see what you wrote ..
    Thank you very much ..!!!
    I'll print all of them ..
    ΕΥΧΑΡΙΣΤΩ ..!
     

    ~ceLine~

    Senior Member
    Turkish/French
    Weelll ... a question ..

    When I read, I understand .. But how can I write them by myself?
    I mean I didn't understand how the endings change :S ..
    I'm completly confused about it now ..

    You said;
    Πλένω το αυτοκίνητο - I wash the car
    Μου Πλένεται το αυτοκίνητο - The car is washed by me

    But how "Πλένω" turned to "Πλένετα" ? ..

    Hope to can help me ..

    Thank you :) ..
     

    jaxlarus

    Senior Member
    Greek (el-CY)
    You said;
    Πλένω το αυτοκίνητο - I wash the car
    Μου Πλένεται το αυτοκίνητο - The car is washed by me

    But how "Πλένω" turned to "Πλένεται" ? ..

    Hope to can help me ..

    Thank you :) ..
    :) Hi, Céline!

    No, you didn't get it right...

    The proper way to say "The car is washed by me" - in case you actually want to say a thing like that - is:
    Το αυτοκίνητό πλένεται από (ε)μένα.

    Πλένω and πλένομαι are two distinct verbs, the former in active and the latter in passive voice. Πλένομαι expresses both passive and middle mood, i.e. I either wash my self or I'm being washed by someone else. They have the same connection as yιkamak and yιkanmak do in Turkish.

    Many verb pairs like that exist in Greek (as they do in Turkish):

    δένω - δένομαι
    ακούω - ακούγομαι
    στρώνω - στρώνομαι
    ζαλίζω - ζαλίζομαι
    οδηγώ - οδηγούμαι
    αγαπώ - αγαπιέμαι

    ...and the list goes on and on.

    In fact almost every active voice verb has its passive counterpart and the most usual way to get it is to replace with -ομαι [1st conjugation verbs].
    Other passive voice verbs endings: -ούμαι, -ιέμαι, -ώμαι, -άμαι [2nd conjugation verbs].

    ;) Hope this makes things a bit more clear for you!
     

    ~ceLine~

    Senior Member
    Turkish/French
    Better now :eek: ..

    May I want something from you please?
    If it won't be diffucult to you can you write me which (passive) endings is coming for which active voice?
    I mean, you wrote;
    δένω - δένομαι
    ακούω - ακούγομαι

    ...

    Well so ω ---> ομαι ...
    But when -ούμαι, -ιέμαι, -ώμαι, -άμαι ?

    Just if you can ..

    Thank you very much for all :)
     

    jaxlarus

    Senior Member
    Greek (el-CY)
    G E N E R A L R U L E S

    A. 1st Conjugation [verbs NOT stressed on the -ω]
    :arrow: -ομαι
    δένω - δένομαι
    αφήνω - αφήνομαι
    βρίσκω - βρίσκομαι

    If, after removing the , you are left with a vowel, a γ is used as buffer:

    λέω - λέγομαι
    καίω - καίγομαι
    ακούω - ακούγομαι

    B. 2nd Conjugation [verbs stressed on the -ώ]
    (a) 1st Order [2nd singular (εσύ) in -άς]

    :arrow: -ιέμαι
    κρατώ - κρατιέμαι
    κουβαλώ - κουβαλιέμαι
    τραβώ - τραβιέμαι

    (b) 2nd Order [2nd singular (εσύ) in -είς]
    :arrow: -ούμαι
    θεωρώ - θεωρούμαι
    τιμωρώ - τιμωρούμαι
    αδικώ - αδικούμαι
    καταζητώ - καταζητούμαι

    Verbs in -ώμαι are both rare and scholarly and tend to be changed in -ούμαι nowadays:
    απατώ - απατώμαι
    διασπώ - διασπώμαι
    εξαρτώ - εξαρτώμαι
    XXXXX - εγγυώμαι

    Verbs in -άμαι are quite common verbs of neutral mood, that can also take -ούμαι. Only three of them exist (plus the verbs produced by them):

    θυμίζω - θυμάμαι
    λυπώ - λυπάμαι
    κοιμίζω - κοιμάμαι
     

    ~ceLine~

    Senior Member
    Turkish/French
    WOW ... :eek: ....

    Had you written a grammer book, if not you may think ..!!! :)

    I really don't know how to thanks to you :) ..
    That was amazing ..

    Thank you very very much ..!!!!!!!!


    ΕΥΧΑΡΙΣΤΩ ΠΑΡΑ ΠΟΛΥΥΥΥ ..!
     
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