Persian: ایں چہ می بینم

Gop

Senior Member
Tamil
عجب ثُمَؔ العجب۔ ایں چہ می بینم
(Intezar Husain, ChiraaGhoN kaa dhuaaN, p. 220)
How could this be translated?
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    عجب ثُمَؔ العجب۔ ایں چہ می بینم
    (Intezar Husain, ChiraaGhoN kaa dhuaaN, p. 220)
    How could this be translated?
    Gope SaaHib, the modern day Iranians won't know what ایں is unless they are aware of a concept known as nuun-i-Ghuunah. That is why @Mobin_salimi_1384 said, "This is not Persian. Is it correct?" implying that perhaps you have typed the wording incorrectly.

    Persian: Is there a nasal nuun in poetry? (See posts 12 and 14 especially)

    Your first construction is from the Arabic language. You will know what 3ajab means... strange, astonishing... "thumma" (and in Urdu "summa") means "then". So, together the meaning could be....

    What on Earth.....!

    I am dumbfounded.

    ایں چہ می بینم؟ What is this that I am seeing? یہ کیا میں دیکھ رہا ہوں؟

    The opening line from a Hafiz Ghazal goes something like..

    ایں چہ [شوریست کہ در دورِ قمر] می بینم

    Perhaps, this phrase has come from this Hafiz Ghazal.
     

    Gop

    Senior Member
    Tamil
    Gope SaaHib, the modern day Iranians won't know what ایں is unless they are aware of a concept known as nuun-i-Ghuunah. That is why @Mobin_salimi_1384 said, "This is not Persian. Is it correct?" implying thart perhaps you have typed the wording incorrectly.

    Persian: Is there a nasal nuun in poetry? (See posts 12 and 14 especially)

    Your first construction is from the Arabic language. You will know what 3ajab means... strange, astonishing... "thumma" (and in urdu "summa") means "then". So, together the meaning could be....

    What on Earth.....!

    I am dumbfounded.

    ایں چہ می بینم؟ What is this that I am seeing? یہ کیا میں دیکھ رہا ہوں؟
    Most enlightening, Qureshpor SaaHib. I did not mention ‘Arabic’ fearing a moderator’s strict views on this on an earlier post of mine. Thanks very much!
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    No, not at all. It makes perfect sense in the given context.
    Thanks, Qureshpor. Reason I asked is, in standardized Persian, meaning that which has been subjected to the rigours of grammar, the این would be dropped, leaving only چه می‌بینم, 'what do I see!'
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thanks, Qureshpor. Reason I asked is, in standardized Persian, meaning that which has been subjected to the rigours of grammar, the این would be dropped, leaving only چه می‌بینم, 'what do I see!'
    Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why the inclusion of این makes it ungrammatical.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    عجب ثُمَؔ العجب۔ ایں چہ می بینم
    If I may throw my pennies worth in, if this was all in Persian it would go something like: شگفتا/عجب از این چه می بینم so از is required to make it grammatically correct, not too dissimilar to Qureshpor's translation below: "I am dumbfounded by what I see"
    What on Earth.....!

    I am dumbfounded.

    ایں چہ می بینم؟ What is this that I am seeing?
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why the inclusion of این makes it ungrammatical.
    Che has one of the two functions. Examples will save time:
    آن‌چه می‌بینم شگفت‌انگیز است
    Here چه acts as a connecting word and is an integral part of the subject; the thing that I see is wonderful.
    چه می‌بینم؟
    A question word, even though the question may in fact be rhetorical, the tone, exclamatory: what do I see!

    In این چه می‌بینم the intention is apparently to use چه in its interrogative capacity, but then all of a sudden there are two subjects there, depriving چه of its opportunity to stand alone and to play its pivotal role in an exclamation of the che kind. To the ordinarily trained mind what the speaker or writer has produced here is a relative clause -- the first function -- that remains unfulfilled through the absence of the main sentence: the thing that I see ...(??)
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    In این چه می‌بینم the intention is apparently to use چه in its interrogative capacity, but then all of a sudden there are two subjects there, depriving چه of its opportunity to stand alone and to play its pivotal role in an exclamation of the che kind. To the ordinarily trained mind what the speaker or writer has produced here is a relative clause -- the first function -- that remains unfulfilled through the absence of the main sentence: the thing that I see ...(??)
    This is how I see this and it is very similar to your take.

    این چه (چیزیست که) می بینم

    این چه (بلائیست که) می بینم
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    Your perceived sentences are both fine, Qureshpor. However, if you place the verb of the clause in brackets and then keep it there, the wording will suffer, I'm afraid. It is, after all, still a clause, and clauses do require verbs, the last time I checked.

    Still, I suspect poetic licence or some such factor may be at work here. Which must be making the phrase work for the readers of the text in question in defiance of rigid rules of grammar. I actually regret the fact that I cannot access the full text to look for more possible sprinklings of Persian to understand how these differences may in fact be enriching the language.
     
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