Persian: نرسد

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Castellano de Argentina
Friends,

What does نرسد mean in the following context:

عشق اگر بہ فریادِ دلِ ما نرسد


It belongs to the lyrics of a song in the Pakistani musical show "Coke Studio", meant to be an hommage to Googoosh's "Man Amadeh Am". [Youtube: U_DSCLqgZCo]
But I don't know if the Persian parts are faithful to the original.

The translation given is "If love doesn't heed the supplication of my heart".

By elimination (I don't know Persian at all) نرسد has to mean something like "heed", but what is the headword exactly?

Thanks in advance
 
  • Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    رسد from پہنچنا = رسیدن

    From captions/subtitles:


    عشق اگر بہ فریادِ دلِ ما نرسد
    عشق اگر میرے دل کی فریاد کو نہ
    پہنچا
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    This is a verb, or a part of it. "Be faryaad naressad" is the complete verb. Meaning: will not deal with a grievance, or, will not help out, in a conditional sentence.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    نرسد is from رسیدن which primary means “to arrive”, but here به combines with it to give به....رسیدن which means “to deal with/attend to”.

    e.g. امروز به کارم رسید/today I dealt with /saw to my work.

    Of course به جایی رسیدن means “to arrive to some place”
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    نرسد is from رسیدن which primary means “to arrive”, but here به combines with it to give به....رسیدن which means “to deal with/attend to”.
    Persolatin, the preposition به always combines with رسیدن in the presence of an object, with the emphasis on 'always'. Sorry, I just had to say this, just in case.
    Examples:
    پدر به خانه خواهد رسید
    تشنه‌ای در بیابان به آب می‌رسد
    شاید به پروازم نرسم
    همیشه به فریادت رسیده‌ام
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    You are right for your examples and mine below:
    e.g. امروز به کارم رسید/today I dealt with /saw to my work.

    Of course به جایی رسیدن means “to arrive to some place”

    There are cases where رسیدن is on its own as in بسته رسید but not quite the same as بسته is the subject.

    I was trying to work out when به....رسیدن means "to deal with" and when it means "to arrive". I think it depends on the object, so when the object is physical it means "to arrive" otherwise it means "to deal with/to see to". You might find an example that defies this rule, of course
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    Hardly. If a person takes care of a business that concerns me, this is expressed as,
    به کار من رسیدگی کرد.

    To deal with, handle, take care of, a business is normally a رسیدگی and not a رسیدن.

    Should, on the other hand, the other person FIND THE TIME to see to the matter pertaining to me, then and only then will it be fine to so very briefly report the fact as you do in your example: به کارم رسید.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    If a person takes care of a business that concerns me, this is expressed as,
    به کار من رسیدگی کرد.
    Of course it can be expressed in that much more formal way.
    Should, on the other hand, the other person FIND THE TIME to see to the matter pertaining to me, then and only then will it be fine to so very briefly report the fact as you do in your example: به کارم رسید.
    So it can be used, and isn’t the circumstances in which it is used irrelevant?
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    In the sense of finding the time to do it, yes, it can be used. In other words circumstances matter, I suppose.

    I realize there are also stock phrases where the verb in question has a slightly different meaning and does not suggest there is a time constraint, eg.,
    به من برس
    Pay attention to me, nurture or pamper me.
    به کار خودت برس
    Mind your own business.

    Your به کارم رسید may have sprung from these stock phrases.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    I realize there are also stock phrases where the verb in question has a slightly different meaning and does not suggest there is a time constraint
    mannoushka, I don't see what this "time constraint" has to do with the correct/incorrect use of these sentences, and whatever it is , it can not and does not affect the grammar of these sentences.

    Also the 'slightly different meaning' you mention is what we have been talking about from the start, one meaning is "to arrive at/to" the other meaning is "to see to/attend to/deal with/look after" and the latter is the relevant meaning for the question in the OP.

    Your به کارم رسید may have sprung from these stock phrases.
    Also what is the difference between به کارم رسید and به فریادم رسید? "she attended to my affairs/my cries".
     

    truce

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Friends,

    What does نرسد mean in the following context:

    عشق اگر بہ فریادِ دلِ ما نرسد


    It belongs to the lyrics of a song in the Pakistani musical show "Coke Studio", meant to be an hommage to Googoosh's "Man Amadeh Am". [Youtube: U_DSCLqgZCo]
    But I don't know if the Persian parts are faithful to the original.

    The translation given is "If love doesn't heed the supplication of my heart".

    By elimination (I don't know Persian at all) نرسد has to mean something like "heed", but what is the headword exactly?

    Thanks in advance
    There are two idioms in Persian:
    1- به فریاد کسی رسیدن
    2- به داد کسی رسیدن
    Both of them mean "to pay immediate attention to someone in trouble and to help them"
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    mannoushka, I don't see what this "time constraint" has to do with the correct/incorrect use of these sentences, and whatever it is , it can not and does not affect the grammar of these sentences.

    Also the 'slightly different meaning' you mention is what we have been talking about from the start, one meaning is "to arrive at/to" the other meaning is "to see to/attend to/deal with/look after" and the latter is the relevant meaning for the question in the OP.


    Also what is the difference between به کارم رسید and به فریادم رسید? "she attended to my affairs/my cries".
    I apologize for being unclear.

    First, the question of grammar. There is no doubt, I am sure we both agree, that the preposition به is always there along with the (Indirect) Object, irrespective of the sense in which this particular verb is being used. One cannot leave out the به or use a different preposition. To suggest, as you do, that the به combines with رسیدن to alter the sense of the verb,
    but here به combines with it to give به....رسیدن which means “to deal with/attend to”.
    is misleading. For instance, in order to say a person managed to reach the office in time, you still have to use the same preposition: او به‌موقع به اداره رسید.
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    This is about all I have had to say on the question of grammar.

    My second objection concerns the example you have used: او به کارم رسید.

    What does this sentence mean? You seem to be saying it means somebody dealt with a matter related to 'me'.

    My point of disagreement is this: although it is quite common to say به کارت برس or بروم به کارهایم برسم, these are more or less stock phrases, which means you don't normally stretch and modify them. They are fixed, and it would be a bit sloppy to over-use them. Moreover, these usages do imply, albeit subtly, that there is a time limit or that one needs to catch up. Do you agree?

    Finally, it is true that به فریاد رسیدن is an idiom verb meaning 'to react to a plea for help in dire circumstances'. But one cannot rightly suggest that به کار رسیدن is also an idiom verb that means 'to deal with (someone's) business'. No. That would be رسیدگی کردن or کار کسی را راه انداختن . And these are not at all much more formal, as you said above.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    It is best to agree to disagree, or hopefully someone else can clarify it.

    For the record, I do not see any difference between the او به کارم رسید and او به فریادم رسید, in grammar or register so به کار کسی رسیدن is به فریاد کسی رسیدن have identical structures and neither is a compound verb.
     
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