Persian: are suffixes -var/ور- and -bar/بر- identical except for v>b/b>v sound change?

PersoLatin

Senior Member
UK
Persian - Iran
Interchanging these suffixes in Persian adjectives that use them, does not change the meaning, with bar & var meaning to hold/carry/bear

رنجبر > رنجور /ranjbar > ranjvar > ranjur (var>ur)
مزدبر > مزدور/mozdbar > mozdvar > mozdur

Also:
جانور & جانبر "holds life" so has life
پیشه بر & پیشه ور "holds job" so worker
شعله ور "hold flame" so aflame/on fire

In modern Persian you can see this in verbs "bar/var" derive from i.e. âvar/آور "bring" & بر/bar "take"
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    PersoLatin jaan, I am not aware of رنجبر and مزدبر. In the second set once again I have not come across جانبر and پیشه بر . I take the meaning of بر as derived from بردن.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Qureshpor said:
    I am not aware of رنجبر
    Potential example in Urdu:
    کبھی اپنے رنجور کوزوں کی جانب
    ...
    کسی خستہ جاں رنج بر کوزہ گر کے لیے
    ایک ہی رات وہ کہربا تھی
    کہ جس سے ابھی تک ہے پَیوست اسکا وُجود
    اس کی جاں اس کا پَیکر

    از حسن کوزہ گر - ن. م. راشد
    PersoLatin said:
    جانور & جانبر "holds life" so has life​
    Qureshpor said:
    In the second set once again I have not come across جانبر
    Do the two words not have slightly different meanings?

    جان بر - one escaping with life, surviving; regaining health, etc.
    جانور - one possessing life,
    living, alive; animal; etc.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    جانور & جانبر "holds life" so has life
    Both version don't necessarily need to exist, the fact that some do is the key, also the interchangeability of bar and var is important, one has to resist citing more modern examples, or, consider them, but with the primary meaning of bar/بر var/ور.
    جان بر - one escaping with life, surviving; regaining health, etc.
    جانور - one possessing life,
    living, alive; animal; etc.
    Of course بر can also mean "to carry away" but بر/bar is cognate with "to bear/carry/hold", so in case of جان بر, one has to hold/bear/have life in the first place, the sense of 'taking away' is carrying/having it to be considered 'alive'.
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    The meaning in both muzd-bar and ranj-bar seems to me to be linked to muzd burdan and ranj burdan and not muzd-uur and ranj-uur. In other words I don't see, at least in the cases illustrated, that the "var" in "jaan-var" is connected to the "bar" in ranj-bar.
     
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