Persian: colloquial forms for râ

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DrLindenbrock

Senior Member
Italian
Hi guys,
the recent thread on how to say "set the table" made me think about the changes that occur in the word (particle) .
I know in Iran it usually becomes o in more relaxed speech, and this was confirmed by Aljish's sentence.
What happens in Afghanistan? Bienvenidos, I saw you wrote ra ... is it ra or rather ?
Is the vowel the one in bad (بد / Eng. bad) or the one in bâd (باد / Eng. wind)?
Have a nice day! :)
 
  • Alijsh

    Senior Member
    Persian - Iran
    As for Iranian Persian: if the noun phrase ends in a vowel we use ro and otherwise it's shortened to enclitic -o (for those who don't know about enclitic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic]: it means -o joins to its preceding word and becomes part of its syllable i.e. it's not pronounced separately)
     

    Bienvenidos

    Senior Member
    USA
    English
    Hi :) :D

    In Afghanistan, the spoken conjugations and grammar are very different from their written counterparts.

    The ra is used when a plural noun ending in a vowel (which is everything :D :) ) becomes the direct object. The "ra," when attached to the "direct object," shows that it is in fact a direct object.

    The "ra" has a different sound in Afghanistan.

    That sound is not the a in bad but the a in abroad.

    So it's a regular "a" sound with the "uh" sounding a.

    This change from â to a occurs often in Afghanistan:

    Ra --> as in rang (not râng in Afghanistan)

    Examples:

    Pya'lâ-ra andâxtamI threw/dropped the cupsDaraxtâ-ra ow dâdim
    We watered the trees

    :) :D I hope I explained it well! :D :)
     

    Alijsh

    Senior Member
    Persian - Iran
    So, we would have:
    sag-o kardam
    but
    gorbe-ro kardam
    right?
    You're welcome. "X ro kardam" has an impolite meaning however I'm sure you use this verb at random.

    Well, we say gorba-ro and not gorbe-ro although we normally say gorbe and not gorba. The reason is that gorba is the older pronunciation. In middle Persian they were ended in -ak/-ag; then evolved to -a and finally -e. So, we have had this evolution: gurbak -> gorba -> gorbe (u has also become o). Well, a -> e happens to final -a, in gorba-ro, -a is not in final position so it hasn't evolved to gorbe-ro. I hope I have explained well.

    Thanks to your example, I think we must consider -ro enclitic as well. What do you think about it?

    As far as I see, this must apply to all words ending in -e e.g. we say: xuna-ro sâxtam, bacca-ro šostam, setâra-ro didam

    This is not the only case in which we are faced with such a phenomenon. If you have noticed the plural form of setâre is setâregân. Everywhere, they call this g a mediator phoneme (vâj-e miyânji; I don't know its exact linguistic term in English) whereas it's part of the Middle Persian form of the word: setârag. setârag-ân -> setâreg-ân
     

    DrLindenbrock

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Oh yeah guys, sorry....I meant to use "didam" but the other verb came through.... you know, it's the most used verb in Persian! I see it everywhere! :)
    Er, Aljish, can "kardan" have an impolite meaning? Hm, I'm curious now. If you think it's too impolite to write down here, could you please send me a pm? thanks! :)
    Thank you both for your explanations! :)
     
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