Persian: colloquial forms for râ

DrLindenbrock

Senior Member
Italian
Hi guys,
the recent thread on how to say "set the table" made me think about the changes that occur in the word (particle) .
I know in Iran it usually becomes o in more relaxed speech, and this was confirmed by Aljish's sentence.
What happens in Afghanistan? Bienvenidos, I saw you wrote ra ... is it ra or rather ?
Is the vowel the one in bad (بد / Eng. bad) or the one in bâd (باد / Eng. wind)?
Have a nice day! :)
 
  • Alijsh

    Senior Member
    Persian - Iran
    As for Iranian Persian: if the noun phrase ends in a vowel we use ro and otherwise it's shortened to enclitic -o (for those who don't know about enclitic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic]: it means -o joins to its preceding word and becomes part of its syllable i.e. it's not pronounced separately)
     

    Bienvenidos

    Senior Member
    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Hi :) :D

    In Afghanistan, the spoken conjugations and grammar are very different from their written counterparts.

    The ra is used when a plural noun ending in a vowel (which is everything :D :) ) becomes the direct object. The "ra," when attached to the "direct object," shows that it is in fact a direct object.

    The "ra" has a different sound in Afghanistan.

    That sound is not the a in bad but the a in abroad.

    So it's a regular "a" sound with the "uh" sounding a.

    This change from â to a occurs often in Afghanistan:

    Ra --> as in rang (not râng in Afghanistan)

    Examples:

    Pya'lâ-ra andâxtamI threw/dropped the cupsDaraxtâ-ra ow dâdim
    We watered the trees

    :) :D I hope I explained it well! :D :)
     

    Alijsh

    Senior Member
    Persian - Iran
    So, we would have:
    sag-o kardam
    but
    gorbe-ro kardam
    right?
    You're welcome. "X ro kardam" has an impolite meaning however I'm sure you use this verb at random.

    Well, we say gorba-ro and not gorbe-ro although we normally say gorbe and not gorba. The reason is that gorba is the older pronunciation. In middle Persian they were ended in -ak/-ag; then evolved to -a and finally -e. So, we have had this evolution: gurbak -> gorba -> gorbe (u has also become o). Well, a -> e happens to final -a, in gorba-ro, -a is not in final position so it hasn't evolved to gorbe-ro. I hope I have explained well.

    Thanks to your example, I think we must consider -ro enclitic as well. What do you think about it?

    As far as I see, this must apply to all words ending in -e e.g. we say: xuna-ro sâxtam, bacca-ro šostam, setâra-ro didam

    This is not the only case in which we are faced with such a phenomenon. If you have noticed the plural form of setâre is setâregân. Everywhere, they call this g a mediator phoneme (vâj-e miyânji; I don't know its exact linguistic term in English) whereas it's part of the Middle Persian form of the word: setârag. setârag-ân -> setâreg-ân
     

    DrLindenbrock

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Oh yeah guys, sorry....I meant to use "didam" but the other verb came through.... you know, it's the most used verb in Persian! I see it everywhere! :)
    Er, Aljish, can "kardan" have an impolite meaning? Hm, I'm curious now. If you think it's too impolite to write down here, could you please send me a pm? thanks! :)
    Thank you both for your explanations! :)
     
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