Persian: Definite/indefinite articles

toscairn

Banned
Japan
Hi Bienvenidos, could I ask you a question here?

If "sur" is "red," could we attach ezafe (yezafe?) and make it mean "a red one?" I leaned that ezafe is indefinite article, and makes an adjective an agent by suffixing it.

e.g. gol (rose)
goli (rosy)
Above example is an ezafe making an adjective by suffixing a noun.

e.g. Tabriz
Tabrizi (a dweller of Tabriz)
 
  • Bienvenidos

    Senior Member
    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    toscairn said:
    Hi Bienvenidos, could I ask you a question here?
    If "sur" is "red," could we attach ezafe (yezafe?) and make it mean "a red one?" I leaned that ezafe is indefinite article, and makes an adjective an agent by suffixing it.
    e.g. gol (rose)
    goli (rosy)
    Above example is an ezafe making an adjective by suffixing a noun.
    e.g. Tabriz
    Tabrizi (a dweller of Tabriz)
    Hi toscaim! Thank you for asking; I'm always enthusiastic to help those who are picking up another language (especially when that language is my mother tongue :) )

    First off, I'd just like to mention that I speak Afghan Farsi and not Iranian Persian. There is a big difference between the two dialects! Iranian Persian is more focused on grammar, and some grammatical structures are different. Iranian Persian is spoken the same way as it is written, thus creating a grammatically enforced language. Written Afghan Farsi is the same as written Iranian Persian, but SPOKEN Afghan Farsi is completely different from Iranian Persian. Afghan Farsi is more of a conversational language; spoken verb conjugations are different than in Iranian Persian. However, speakers of either dialect can understand each other completely. So, any advice that I give you is correct in Afghan Farsi, and, unless I am mistaken, in Iranian Persian.

    Here's what I can tell you:

    I can't identify Romanized Farsi perfectly, but ee-zah-fee (pronounced like that) means "extra" in Farsi. Thus, I don't think it makes much sense to say "ee-zah-fee" when referring to definite/indefinite suffixes....unless this has become a new "academic term".

    First off, Farsi has no definite or indefinite articles. There are certain ways that it can be implied, but there is no actual article. You are correct, though: there are suffixes that define the word's "definiteness" or "indefiniteness".

    Here's a portion of what I posted in a thread about All languages: No definite/indefinite article.

    You can't say a book in Farsi. You can say yug kitob, but that means "one book". You can't say the book either. You can say u kitob, but that means "that book". Sometimes "a" or "the" can be implied when saying something, kulum dari? do you have a pen", or túsha darido you have the marker. I suppose that the addition of the -a at the end of the noun can signify "the", but again, there are no specific definite/indefinite articles.

    So here's a general rule

    Suffix:
    a
    - a definite object attached to a noun when the object of a verb and when the noun ends in a consonant

    Kitoba dari? do you have the book
    Uksa dari? do you have the picture (photo)
    Túsha dari? do you have the marker

    This only shows definiteness when an object of a verb. You CAN'T use this as a subject.

    Example: Kitoba sya us DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN FARSI! If you are attempting to say "the book is black", you need to use the noun (remember...there are no definite articles!) Kitob sya us
    is correct.

    Suffix:
    ra -
    a definite object attached to a noun when the object of a verb and when the noun ends in a vowel

    Kicheera dari? do you have the scissors
    Pyalara dari? do you have the cup?

    Using the noun without a suffix shows indefiniteness:

    Kitob dari? do you have a book?
    Pyala dari? do you habe a cup?
    Kichee dari? do you have [a pair of] scissors?
    Túsh dari? do you have a marker?

    As for your author question, "i" can be seen as a genitive in most Farsi posessive adjectives.

    Afghani - of Afghanistan

    As for your examples:

    gol- flower/rose

    That's correct. But if you add an -i.....Goli means pill in Afghan Farsi.....so that's not a good example.

    Here's some other examples where using the "i" approach to create an adjective won't work.

    Subz - green
    That's correct. But if you add an -i......Subzi means spinach in Afghan Farsi.....

    Please feel free to post more Farsi questions in the ALL LANGUAGES FORUM: I'd love to answer them. You can also ask questions via PMs if you please.

    GOOD LUCK IN YOUR STUDIES!

    Bien
     

    Tisia

    Senior Member
    Iran, Persian, Kurdish, English, Finnish
    Bienvenido, I don't know if they are called in Persian grammer definite/indefinite articles or not, but we have them any way. In English it is said I took the book which would be Man ketab ra bordam in Persian as for I have a book it would be Man yek ketab daram. Ra shows which book we are talkking about while yek could be any.
    By the way sabzi in Persian means vegetables:)


    Moikka
    Tisia
     

    Bienvenidos

    Senior Member
    USA
    Afghanistan/USA
    Tisia said:
    Bienvenido, I don't know if they are called in Persian grammer definite/indefinite articles or not, but we have them any way. In English it is said I took the book which would be Man ketab ra bordam in Persian as for I have a book it would be Man yek ketab daram. Ra shows which book we are talkking about while yek could be any.
    By the way sabzi in Persian means vegetables:)

    Elroy, you are right it is called جدار in Arabic. I just couldn't remember the word:)

    Moikka
    Tisia
    Hey again Tisia, :)

    I'm guessing again that these are differences between Afghan Farsi and Iranian Persian. There is no "yek" in Afghan Farsi (yug, meaning one).. but if I'm not mistaken, "yek" in Iranian Persian also means one? Thus you're saying one book (which of course, to us Farsi speakers, can translate as "a" book, but I suppose there are no definite/indefinite articles).

    To say I have the book in Afghan Farsi:
    Muh ketoba daram.

    To say I took one book:
    Muh yug kitob giriftum/bordam

    Subzi is spinach in Afghan Farsi. Again, the vocabulary is different: so those who are reading please note:

    Bienvenidos - Afghan Farsi
    Tisia - Iranian Persian

    Granted, if you are learning Persian/Farsi, 99.9% of the time it will be Iranian Persian, but the general foundation/vocabulary is similar between the two dialects.

    Bien
     
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